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I Can't Really See How Brock Can Win


DSCHNEID

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I will breakdown Brock's performances without my opinion on whether I like him as a fighter or not.

 

Brock cuts to 265, say what you want a cut before a fight is going to make you get knocked out easier, no way around it, and KO's are Carwin's specialty.

 

Brock may have a hard time keeping Carwin on the ground, Carwin got up when Gonzaga was on top of him in his half guard by using the fense, if Carwin is in guard I believe he will do the same to Lesnar, seeing how Gonzaga's top game is close if not better than Lesnar's.

 

When Lesnar gets a dominant position, such as the Herring fight where he got mount, all Herring did was roll over and give up his back and Brock immediately lost the hooks every time, once Lesnar looses the hooks I think Carwin will use the cage again to stand up.

 

Lesnar's stand up isn't great, its good, can't argue after the first ten seconds of the Herring bout, but Mir caught him with a good left hook and a nice knee before throwing a flying knee and getting taken down, but Lesnar was hurt.

 

After all of Carwin's fights you can't say he doesn't have Knock Out power, and he showed to have a good chin against Gonzaga, human but hard to KO and good recovering speed, its tough to tell if Lesnar's punch on Herring was a fluke because he hasn't ever did it again, where as Carwin has proved time and time again his power is real.

 

I doubt Carwin will be too comfortable off of his back, I doubt he'll get scared but he will want to get up right away and take as little damage as possible, Lesnar's ground and pound can knock anybody out, so Carwin will probably be ready to make a quick escape, which working with Greg Jackson will help a ton, where as Mir didn't care too much about getting up and tried to out grapple Lesnar's ground and pound and paid the price.

 

Lesnar is not a godly wrestler, he is a good wrestler with a strong base, but Randy Couture pushed him up against the fence, a tactic Carwin used to KO Mir. (Which also shows how badass Randy Couture is)

 

Now obviously Lesnar is the champion and shouldn't be counted out, also I don't believe in ring rust or anything like that, but I can't think of a way Lesnar can win, it seems every strength he has Carwin is either better or can deal with it. But we haven't seen Lesnar fight too much, so we don't know who he can/cannot beat.

 

Explain your breakdown of the fight (but keep it short and sweet, something I'm not too good at), do you feel Lesnar can't win, or do you feel Lesnar can't lose? Make an educated post, because if I see u spel lik dis I will skip over your post and it won't matter. Also leave egos out of this, I'm talking about the fight not the trash talking. One more thing if you quote me do it in small sections, you take a ton of space quoting the entire thing, I know what I wrote and so does everyone else don't worry. (Doesn't it suck I have to write this part, it should be common sense, oh well, have fun) Oh great one last thing, flamers not welcome.

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I will breakdown Brock's performances without my opinion on whether I like him as a fighter or not.

 

Brock cuts to 265' date=' say what you want a cut before a fight is going to make you get knocked out easier, no way around it, and KO's are Carwin's specialty.[/b']

 

Brock may have a hard time keeping Carwin on the ground, Carwin got up when Gonzaga was on top of him in his half guard by using the fense, if Carwin is in guard I believe he will do the same to Lesnar, seeing how Gonzaga's top game is close if not better than Lesnar's.

 

When Lesnar gets a dominant position, such as the Herring fight where he got mount, all Herring did was roll over and give up his back and Brock immediately lost the hooks every time, once Lesnar looses the hooks I think Carwin will use the cage again to stand up.

 

Lesnar's stand up isn't great, its good, can't argue after the first ten seconds of the Herring bout, but Mir caught him with a good left hook and a nice knee before throwing a flying knee and getting taken down, but Lesnar was hurt.

 

After all of Carwin's fights you can't say he doesn't have Knock Out power, and he showed to have a good chin against Gonzaga, human but hard to KO and good recovering speed, its tough to tell if Lesnar's punch on Herring was a fluke because he hasn't ever did it again, where as Carwin has proved time and time again his power is real.

 

I doubt Carwin will be too comfortable off of his back, I doubt he'll get scared but he will want to get up right away and take as little damage as possible, Lesnar's ground and pound can knock anybody out, so Carwin will probably be ready to make a quick escape, which working with Greg Jackson will help a ton, where as Mir didn't care too much about getting up and tried to out grapple Lesnar's ground and pound and paid the price.

 

Lesnar is not a godly wrestler, he is a good wrestler with a strong base, but Randy Couture pushed him up against the fence, a tactic Carwin used to KO Mir. (Which also shows how badass Randy Couture is)

 

Now obviously Lesnar is the champion and shouldn't be counted out, also I don't believe in ring rust or anything like that, but I can't think of a way Lesnar can win, it seems every strength he has Carwin is either better or can deal with it. But we haven't seen Lesnar fight too much, so we don't know who he can/cannot beat.

 

Explain your breakdown of the fight (but keep it short and sweet, something I'm not too good at), do you feel Lesnar can't win, or do you feel Lesnar can't lose? Make an educated post, because if I see u spel lik dis I will skip over your post and it won't matter. Also leave egos out of this, I'm talking about the fight not the trash talking. One more thing if you quote me do it in small sections, you take a ton of space quoting the entire thing, I know what I wrote and so does everyone else don't worry. (Doesn't it suck I have to write this part, it should be common sense, oh well, have fun) Oh great one last thing, flamers not welcome.

 

Well I agree he will loose but as soon as you started and talked about cutting will make you get knocked out easier I realised you know nothing.

 

Cutting weight dosen't ruin your chin or make you open to knockouts, what it may do is make you weaker and gas easier. That said after the weigh ins there is time to recuperate and lean up again.

 

The reason I think Brock will loose is becuase hewas the worst standup in the HW division and they are both great wrestlers while carwin has good boxing and huge KO power.

 

The other bold bit I highlighted was becuase it is completely retarted. Gonzaga is a BJJ black belt while Brock is an ex NCAA wrestler so of course brock has better top game.

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Well I agree he will loose but as soon as you started and talked about cutting will make you get knocked out easier I realised you know nothing.

 

Cutting weight dosen't ruin your chin or make you open to knockouts' date=' what it may do is make you weaker and gas easier. That said after the weigh ins there is time to recuperate and lean up again.

 

The reason I think Brock will loose is becuase hewas the worst standup in the HW division and they are both great wrestlers while carwin has good boxing and huge KO power.

 

The other bold bit I highlighted was becuase it is completely retarted. Gonzaga is a BJJ black belt while Brock is an ex NCAA wrestler so of course brock has better top game.[/quote']

Couldn't agree more.

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So... Gonzaga top control > Brock's?

 

Couture got up when Lesnar was on top and took very little damage' date=' so my point is it is possible to get up from under Lesnar.

 

Cutting weight dosen't ruin your chin or make you open to knockouts, what it may do is make you weaker and gas easier. That said after the weigh ins there is time to recuperate and lean up again.

 

I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure its easier to get knocked out when your weaker and gassed, I didn't say he will get knocked out in the first second because of the cut, because the cut won't take effect then, but as he works and gets tired more quickly, he will be open to knockouts. An example would be in TUF 10 when Jon Madson was tired against Schaub and got knocked out.

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Couture got up when Lesnar was on top and took very little damage' date=' so my point is it is possible to get up from under Lesnar.

 

 

 

I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure its easier to get knocked out when your weaker and gassed, I didn't say he will get knocked out in the first second because of the cut, because the cut won't take effect then, but as he works and gets tired more quickly, he will be open to knockouts. An example would be in TUF 10 when Jon Madson was tired against Schaub and got knocked out.[/quote']

 

Yes the difference between Madson and Lesnar is that Lesnar has been doing amatuer wrestling for a long time and he is used to cutting weight. He will have time to lean up before the fight and after the cut but I agree that Carwin will KO Lesnar just becuase Lesnar has such terrible stand up.

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God forbid you explain your point.

 

 

 

He's taking down a 205 guy' date=' and show him get up after[/quote']Gonzaga took down Carwin.

 

Randy Couture, 220 or not (205 is a lie you just made up), is 100x the wrestler Carwin is

 

You're deluded

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Couture got up when Lesnar was on top and took very little damage' date=' so my point is it is possible to get up from under Lesnar.

[/quote']

 

Couture got up because he's a Greco Roman veteran fighting a relatively inexperienced Brock Lesnar in MMA. We've seen it in the past; Greco Roman WILL cancel out Freestyle 90% of the time. In freestyle it depends mostly on power, which Brock will have the obvious advantage.

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Couture got up because he's a Greco Roman veteran fighting a relatively inexperienced Brock Lesnar in MMA. We've seen it in the past; Greco Roman WILL cancel out Freestyle 90% of the time. In freestyle it depends mostly on power' date=' which Brock will have the obvious advantage.[/quote']Shhhhh don't tell him the difference between Greco and Freestyle... let him continue to make stupid posts
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Im really looking forward to this match , I'm really surprised to see how it turns out. My money is on Carwin after the performances hes put on I think he will KO Brock. But we haven't seen how strong Carwin is off his back and Brock has vicious GnP. Should be interesting

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if you quote me do it in small sections' date=' you take a ton of space quoting the entire thing, I know what I wrote and so does everyone else don't worry. Doesn't it suck I have to write this part, it should be common sense,[/quote']

 

I realised you know nothing.

 

Obviously you didn't read my post very good because you quoted my entire first post, which I said exactly what not to do, so your bashing me when you didn't either read or follow directions.

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Haven't you seen the UFC Interview where Lesnar and his coaches talk about how hard it is for Lesnar to stay around 265? He is having trouble keeping that weight. And after being sick I'm sure he lost weight too.

 

Lesnar might have bad standup, but he's had to improve in the year or two that he's been in the UFC.

 

His size and strength is incredible. I wouldn't want to be Hammer-fisted by Lesnar anytime soon.

 

That being said I really don't know that much about Shane Carwin other than he is a first-round knock-out artist. His fights that I have seen are worthy of my admiration, but what if this goes beyond the first round? Is he going to get gassed? Will he be disheartened because of having to go more than 1 round?

 

 

I don't know. I can't wait for the fight though.

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Couture got up because he's a Greco Roman veteran fighting a relatively inexperienced Brock Lesnar in MMA. We've seen it in the past; Greco Roman WILL cancel out Freestyle 90% of the time. In freestyle it depends mostly on power' date=' which Brock will have the obvious advantage.[/quote']

 

Good point, the point is you can get up, its not impossible.

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Well I agree he will loose but as soon as you started and talked about cutting will make you get knocked out easier I realised you know nothing.

 

Cutting weight dosen't ruin your chin or make you open to knockouts' date=' what it may do is make you weaker and gas easier. That said after the weigh ins there is time to recuperate and lean up again.

 

The reason I think Brock will loose is becuase hewas the worst standup in the HW division and they are both great wrestlers while carwin has good boxing and huge KO power.

 

The other bold bit I highlighted was becuase it is completely retarted. Gonzaga is a BJJ black belt while Brock is an ex NCAA wrestler so of course brock has better top game.[/quote']

 

funny how you said this guy knows nothing and is RETARDED, because i counted 9 spelling errors and two grammatical errors in your post. what's that saying about "people in glass houses" not throwing stones?

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funny how you said this guy knows nothing and is RETARDED' date=' because i counted 9 spelling errors and two grammatical errors in your post. what's that saying about "people in glass houses" not throwing stones?[/quote']

 

especially since most browsers have spell check lol

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brocks strategy is simple:

 

be a fat ****

 

he's going to lose. i dont understand how you guys can comment on how good his game/standup and gnp and all this crap is... he's been in 5 fights. 1 of which was pre-ufc.

 

the only chance he has is being huge. every single one of his skills is based on that fact. if he was the same size as everyone else, he would have had his **** kicked on 5 seperate occasions by now.

 

basicaly what i'm saying is brock has nothing special when it comes to talent, just some of the most amazing caveman/viking/gorilla genes ever ****ed into 1 person.

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lesnar must be a better wrestler and stronger than shane.but carwin has a huge KO power (that?s the only thing i see carwin is better tahn brock). i think brock?s game plan ?d be the same when he fought heath herring.

besides, nobody knows about shane?s cardio.he hasn?t fought even 1 entire round yet and brock should have also a better cardio.

 

i?m going for brock.

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brocks strategy is simple:

 

be a fat ****

 

he's going to lose. i dont understand how you guys can comment on how good his game/standup and gnp and all this crap is... he's been in 5 fights. 1 of which was pre-ufc.

 

the only chance he has is being huge. every single one of his skills is based on that fact. if he was the same size as everyone else' date=' he would have had his **** kicked on 5 seperate occasions by now.

 

basicaly what i'm saying is brock has nothing special when it comes to talent, just some of the most amazing caveman/viking/gorilla genes ever ****ed into 1 person.[/quote']I don't understand why anyone would ever stoop to calling brock a fat ****? lol seriously?

 

I can guarantee his physique would be graded on a level that's infinitely superior to yours.

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funny how you said this guy knows nothing and is RETARDED' date=' because i counted 9 spelling errors and two grammatical errors in your post. what's that saying about "people in glass houses" not throwing stones?[/quote']

 

Well, I just counted two grammatical errors in your post as well.

 

There's no sense in beleiving that Brock has no way of winning, but I think Carwin will. The only reason Gonzaga took him down is because he was rocked right before that with three hard right hands. What did he do right after that? Get back up, and knock Gonzaga out with a cross. While Brock is a good fighter, he has never faced adversity. Even in his first fight with Mir, he was dominating before making a rookie mistake. I think Carwin will introduce him to some adversity. Carwin simply has more ways to win. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Carwin takes Brock down. Carwin will be able to get up if he is taken down, but Carwin can end the fight in an instant. I think he will use the Randy Couture approach again, and knock Brock out. Another to take into perspective is this; Carwin did to a 265 lb. Mir with vastly improved skills in the first round, what it took Brock to do in two rounds to a 245 lb. Mir focused almost solely on submissions.

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God forbid you explain your point.

 

 

 

He's taking down a 205 guy' date=' and show him get up after[/quote']

 

well Couture is very technically skilled, and im quite sure Brock has since filled in those gaps i think fighting Couture was the best thing for his career thus far, he was exploited all over the place and has since had time to fix his mistakes

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Brocks obviously going to be more improved than previous times we've seen him. I could see him taking a few of Carwin's shots since his head is massive, and I see Brock winning by TKO. Remember they said Brock was never 100% in the octagon, and Brock is much quicker and more explosive and he's D1 champ for a reason. Brock by falcon punch.

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Brock cuts to 265' date=' say what you want a cut before a fight is going to make you get knocked out easier, no way around it, and KO's are Carwin's specialty.

[/quote']

 

When Brock steps into the octagaon hes back up to 280/285. Oh and as for cutting weight makes you get knocked out easier all i can say is wtf?!

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Damn, what did I say? Most Brock fans are very ill rational. It's like watching a retard trying to **** a doorknob if you argue with them. All you get back is crap that isn't relevant to the post or flat out insults.

 

I think you have very good points, but I am very unsure whether Shane can get up right away or stop the take downs we really just don't know at this point. Gonzaga does have a great top game and Carwin got right back up while rocked like it was nothing, but who knows in all honesty both of these guys are so green considering how many top level guys Carwin has fought and the inexperience of Lesnar it's kind of hard to break this fight down.

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Brock Fans: You know you're retarted,

-If you think Carwin can't KO him

 

Carwin Fans/Lesnar Haters: You know you're retarted,

-If you think Lesnar can't take Carwin down.

-If you think Carwin is a better wreslter than Couture.

-If you think Gonzaga has a better top game than Lesnar.

 

Next Topic.

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Brock Fans: You know you're retarted' date='

-If you think Carwin can't KO him

 

Carwin Fans/Lesnar Haters: You know you're retarted,

-If you think Lesnar can't take Carwin down.

-If you think Carwin is a better wreslter than Couture.

-If you think Gonzaga has a better top game than Lesnar.

 

Next Topic.[/quote']

 

Na the dude that spells retarded wrong twice is the one thats retarded...

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Brock Fans: You know you're retarted' date='

-If you think Carwin can't KO him

 

Carwin Fans/Lesnar Haters: You know you're retarted,

-If you think Lesnar can't take Carwin down.

-If you think Carwin is a better wreslter than Couture.

-[b']If you think Gonzaga has a better top game than Lesnar.[/b]

 

Next Topic.

 

Okay, I want a debate over this why do you think Brock's top game is better have you ever seen a fight when Gonzaga get a dominant position on top? He finishes quickly and usually pretty impressively when he does. That americana he did to Justin McCully was sick. Maybe you mean he has a better ground and pound, but even that is argumentative. Lesnar is so green it's hard to compare him to other top ten heavyweights (yeah I consider Gonzaga to be top ten).

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Okay' date=' I want a debate over this why do you think Brock's top game is better have you ever seen a fight when Gonzaga get a dominant position on top? He finishes quickly and usually pretty impressively when he does. That americana he did to Justin McCully was sick. Maybe you mean he has a better ground and pound, but even that is argumentative. Lesnar is so green it's hard to compare him to other top ten heavyweights (yeah I consider Gonzaga to be top ten).[/quote']

Lesnar is "green" to MMA [four years of training) but not to wrestling. He always maintains top position and learned how to keep his body close to his opponent to not allow seperation and be swept [ala Mir II)

 

Gonzaga, ever since the CroCop fight he has left the fights standing instead of going to his BJJ. The only time the fight actually went to the ground [and he was on top) was in the Carwin and JDS fight and both of them got right back up and Carwin was rocked ATM.

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this dude's fight breakdown was too long, it's actually pretty simple:

 

standing = carwin

clinch = carwin

ground = brock

 

this won?t go out of the first round

 

brock will shoot... and when brock shoots, most people go down... so the question is - can carwin stay on his feet? and if he gets taken down, can he get back up?

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this dude's fight breakdown was too long' date=' it's actually pretty simple:

 

standing = carwin

clinch = carwin

ground = brock

 

this won?t go out of the first round

 

brock will shoot... and when brock shoots, most people go down... so the question is - can carwin stay on his feet? and if he gets taken down, [b']can he get back up?[/b]

 

That's pretty much the million dollar question.

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something to note is that, even though Brock was a Div 1 NCAA wrestling and Carwin was Div 2 champ, Carwin has a purple belt in BJJ, which isn't the best, but will meet the difference because Brock doesn't have any BJJ at all...

 

with that said, Carwin easily has the stand-up advantage and the clinch advantage too...

 

I predict this will end the same way Mir ended... Brock pressed up against the cage in the clinch... KO'ed by Carwin's tyson-esque uppercuts...

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something to note is that' date=' even though Brock was a Div 1 NCAA wrestling and Carwin was Div 2 champ, Carwin has a purple belt in BJJ, which isn't the best, but will meet the difference because Brock doesn't have any BJJ at all...

 

with that said, Carwin easily has the stand-up advantage and the clinch advantage too...

 

I predict this will end the same way Mir ended... Brock pressed up against the cage in the clinch... KO'ed by Carwin's tyson-esque uppercuts...[/quote']

Lesnar doesn't have a belt because he trains without the gi and belts aren't awarded for that. It's been three years so he should be a blue/purple belt at around this time.

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Carwin's advantage is he hasn't lost in the UFC yet and has confidence in himself now. Carwin can knock most down with a single shot but he's not fought anyone like Lesnar yet. 3 out of 4 of Lesnar's fights had Lesnar winning the striking battle hands down non-arguable. Shane has won all of his standup tests but alot of his tests were not tests more like slight challenges if you can see what i'm saying except for Mir where he was loosing the standup battle but relied on his clinch to win and Gonzaga who he lost the stand up battle to until he was able to recover and win it with a well placed right. I don't think Carwin has the ability to stop Lesnar's take downs but whether Lesnar can hold him down is a valid question and will make a difference in this fight although I still feel Lesnar can win on the feet. As far as the clinch I expect Lesnar to suprise many here. Mir screwed up when clinching with Carwin and Carwin relied on a "suprise attack" to defeat Mir. It's no longer unknown that Carwin is dangerous in the clinch and I expect Lesnar to be prepared for it.

 

In the end there's many variables to think about in predicting this fight. I have Lesnar on a 60/40 shot. I like both fighters but am more of a Lesnar fan.

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lesnar must be a better wrestler and stronger than shane.but carwin has a huge KO power (that?s the only thing i see carwin is better tahn brock). i think brock?s game plan ?d be the same when he fought heath herring.

besides' date=' nobody knows about shane?s cardio.he hasn?t fought even 1 entire round yet and brock should have also a better cardio.

 

i?m going for brock.[/quote']

 

brock should have better cardio?..are you serious?

he was damn near completely gassed out half way into the first round against couture, who is way smaller

how good will his cardio look against a guy as big as carwin?:confused:

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Carwin's advantage is he hasn't lost in the UFC yet and has confidence in himself now. Carwin can knock most down with a single shot but he's not fought anyone like Lesnar yet. 3 out of 4 of Lesnar's fights had Lesnar winning the striking battle hands down non-arguable. Shane has won all of his standup tests but alot of his tests were not tests more like slight challenges if you can see what i'm saying except for Mir where he was loosing the standup battle but relied on his clinch to win and Gonzaga who he lost the stand up battle to until he was able to recover and win it with a well placed right. I don't think Carwin has the ability to stop Lesnar's take downs but whether Lesnar can hold him down is a valid question and will make a difference in this fight although I still feel Lesnar can win on the feet. As far as the clinch I expect Lesnar to suprise many here. Mir screwed up when clinching with Carwin and Carwin relied on a "suprise attack" to defeat Mir. It's no longer unknown that Carwin is dangerous in the clinch and I expect Lesnar to be prepared for it.

 

In the end there's many variables to think about in predicting this fight. I have Lesnar on a 60/40 shot. I like both fighters but am more of a Lesnar fan.

 

 

#1. how was mir winning the stand up against carwin?

he landed like one elbow right before he put carwin on the cage and carwin turned him right back around

#2. from what the fighters and carwins training partners say' date=' i dont think its really possible to be "prepared" to take a shot from carwin

 

i think ANY fighters best bet against carwin is to make sure he dosent land ANY PUNCH [u']AT ALL[/u]

 

i also think a lot of people are going to be surprised how lesnar CANT control carwin anywhere the fight goes

im going for shane (obvioiusly), but in a fight with 2 huge guys like this, anyhting could happen

regardless of who wins tho, should be an awesome fight

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brock should have better cardio?..are you serious?

he was damn near completely gassed out half way into the first round against couture' date=' who is way smaller

how good will his cardio look against a guy as big as carwin?:confused:[/quote']

Couture? Gassed out? What fight were you watching. Besides, two years later and fully healed should make his cardio much better.

Carwin hasn't been out of the first, if anything his Cardio should be the one looked at. Training 5 rounds and actually being in 5 rounds are two completely diffrent things.

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