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Wrestling has taken over.


dcapp123

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people **** on wrestling because they don't understand it. They think it's easy to control a guy and bring him against the fence. Yes it sometimes get into a stalemate when they're stuck against the fence and neither of them is capable of pushing the game further thats why they get splitted. But you gotta realise that controlling a top athlete that is used to dealing with people's weight and fighting is a hard thing. Man being able to control a guy like Rampage is something 99,99% of the population would never be able to do.

 

Wrestling is but a means not an end. Guys try to get into a good position to deal damage. Unfortunately very often when the defender has good defense the game gets stuck in the process.

 

At a time BJJ posed a big problem because no1 knew how to deal with it. In the first UFCs people thought Gracie's fights were borring but what happened. The fighters ahd to learn how to deal with it. Same thing is going to happen with wrestling. Guys are going to find ways to counter wrestlers. Until then, it will dominate.

 

Though I gotta say I think they shouldn't consider the fact of just controlling your opponent against the fence as "dominating". It shouldn't give you the round.. considering that most of the time when the fight goes to the fence it's due to a failed TD attempt..

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I'm all for wrestling in MMA. I wrestled in high school and still train takedowns and positioning. But, for an MMA fighter to be a complete fighter, they are going to need to show us a lot more than just takedowns and clinching against the cage for 3 rounds.

 

Squatting down low and swaying back and forth like a monkey does not = wrestling.

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What Kim did to Sadollah is wrestling. What Brilz did to lil Nog is wrestling. What Rashad did to Rampage was NOT wrestling. That's like someone using only a jab the whole fight and calling it boxing.

 

good point. I hate how its like if your an MMA fan you HAVE to stick with Evans, or else your a bum and know nothing about the sport.

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Thinking of this right now.

 

Wrestling has taken over the sport because of the rule system in place at this current time. If you attempt a takedown, you score points for attempting. If you get the takedown, you basically win the round, even if it is stood up with a minute left and you get your face lit up. If your opponent prevents the takedown, you still score the points because you attempted the takedown.

 

All of those rules revolve around wrestling. It is basically a biased grappling scoring system. If you are a better striker and BJJ practitioner, you still can lose a fight even though your opponent has done nothing but use control on you. Then again, if you pull guard, that is not a takedown for you, but for them. So you still lose. If you dominate the stand up for 2.5 minutes and then are taken down, only to be controlled for 2.5 minutes, the striker actually loses the round (see Hendo/Franklin round 2).

 

I am 100% against the current scoring system. They need to make this MMA again and not Wrestling with Martial Arts.

 

A couple ways they could change this is by adding KNEEs to a GROUNDED opponents head. If you attempt a takedown and fail but are still stalling, you can be kneed by your opponent. This prevents stalling and allows your opponent to score where you failed. If you keep attempting this, you will eventually learn that getting a takedown and stalling every few seconds will have devastating consequences.

 

This will not affect fighters who finish takedowns immediately (example, GSP, Brock, etc.), but will punish those who stall for a long period (Koscheck, etc.). Not only is this more balanced, but it gives everyone an equal chance.

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good point. I hate how its like if your an MMA fan you HAVE to stick with Evans' date=' or else your a bum and know nothing about the sport.[/quote']

 

You do present an interesting point. I see that a lot on that side of the fence. I was certainly rooting for Rampage in this fight... but hey, he lost... it happens. Hopefully, he'll rebound.

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I've thought the same thing forra while now. tuf shows these fighters afraid to strike. There's so much pressure people are afraid of that one shot getting thru so they wrestle safely to victory ala gsp rashad evans josh koscheck & what chael sonnen will do or try to do to silva.

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What Kim did to Sadollah is wrestling. What Brilz did to lil Nog is wrestling. What Rashad did to Rampage was NOT wrestling. That's like someone using only a jab the whole fight and calling it boxing.

 

If you don't think control and takedowns = wrestling, maybe you need to brush up on the fundamentals of the sport.

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A couple ways they could change this is by adding KNEEs to a GROUNDED opponents head. If you attempt a takedown and fail but are still stalling' date=' you can be kneed by your opponent. This prevents stalling and allows your opponent to score where you failed. If you keep attempting this, you will eventually learn that getting a takedown and stalling every few seconds will have devastating consequences.

 

This will not affect fighters who finish takedowns immediately (example, GSP, Brock, etc.), but will punish those who stall for a long period (Koscheck, etc.). Not only is this more balanced, but it gives everyone an equal chance.[/quote']

 

They really shouldn,t allow knees to the head of a downed opponent. The reason it's forbidden is to ensure the security of the fighters. You don't wanna end up with tons of cracked skulls or cracked necks..

 

But I think they definitly should change the scoring system. A failed TD shouldn,t give points. as I said, Wrestling alone should be a mean to achieve a better position and deal damage, because it's a fight. The poitn is to make damage or submit. Wrestling is the art of improving your position to achieve those things. If you pin the guy against the fence but are unable to go any further or deal damage, then you aren't doing more than he is, because he is preventing you from improving your position and dealing damage..

 

At least that what I think..The way I see it, if your wrestling is good, you should be able to get into a good position and then inflict sufficient damage to score points. If you can't deal damage when that means you didn't do a good enough wrestling job because the poitn of wrestling is to allow your to get into a better position to do something. if you can't do something that means you failed, and shouldn,t be rewarded for it.

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dude dont complain about it tell your lil fan boy fighters to do something about it.. Wrestling is the most dominant b/c 9/10 the wrestler is faster, stronger, smarter, cardio, explosive and has more heart than the opponent.. giving him the massive edge in taking the fight were he choses... Rashad WON get over it.. in dominant fashion i mite add.. Sorry the big scary slave looking black guy didnt stand up to your standards with his brute strength and i dont give a **** i fight attitude.. At least he's more man then you queres and can admit to a lost to a well rounded oppoenet...

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it would be even worse if sonnen beat silva and evans beats shogun every titleholder would be a wrestler.

 

unfortunately, with the UFC's rules, its also ruining the sport of mma. Totally boring fights (Kos vs. Daley, GSP vs. anyone, Rashad vs. Rampage, lay and pray was no existent in Pride because you could soccer kick and knee them when they are down. Now you get guys hugging and laying on top of each other throwing small pop shots just to look busy, getting points on control, but not actually fighting.

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and if koscheck wins' date=' we will have all americans!!!!! Penn lost, Silva would lose, Shogun, and they wont give velasquez or JDS a shot.[/quote']

 

I just don,t understand how relevent is your reply and what motivated it but... I'll still say that what you're saying is just dumb..

 

first of all, how would Koscheck win? merely very unlikely. Then.. Silva would lose as well? wow the odds of the 2 events occuring are getting thin... Then.. shogun isn't american, he's brazilian.. so... that would require Shogun to lose soon at well??? damn.. good luck on these bets.. better not bet your kids on that.

 

Also what the hell do you care of all the champs are Americans. It really looks like a big dream of yours because you make all that up while I mean.. there are just 2 out of 4 champs who are americans.. and you're there talking about the possibility of having all 5 champs being americans... lol... funny. I like having champs from diffrent countries that way no stupid rednecks can go on and claim that they're better than everyone.

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unfortunately' date=' with the UFC's rules, its also ruining the sport of mma. Totally boring fights (Kos vs. Daley, GSP vs. anyone, Rashad vs. Rampage, lay and pray was no existent in Pride because you could soccer kick and knee them when they are down. Now you get guys hugging and laying on top of each other throwing small pop shots just to look busy, getting points on control, but not actually fighting.[/quote']

 

They should do the card system or point deduction

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They really shouldn' date='t allow knees to the head of a downed opponent. The reason it's forbidden is to ensure the security of the fighters. You don't wanna end up with tons of cracked skulls or cracked necks..

 

But I think they definitly should change the scoring system. A failed TD shouldn,t give points. as I said, Wrestling alone should be a mean to achieve a better position and deal damage, because it's a fight. The poitn is to make damage or submit. Wrestling is the art of improving your position to achieve those things. If you pin the guy against the fence but are unable to go any further or deal damage, then you aren't doing more than he is, because he is preventing you from improving your position and dealing damage..

 

At least that what I think..The way I see it, if your wrestling is good, you should be able to get into a good position and then inflict sufficient damage to score points. If you can't deal damage when that means you didn't do a good enough wrestling job because the poitn of wrestling is to allow your to get into a better position to do something. if you can't do something that means you failed, and shouldn,t be rewarded for it.[/quote']

 

No skulls were cracked from knees to a grounded opponent before. No serious injuries were ever found from this either aside from concussions and the such. This can happen from punches and kicks though even when standing. Thus, this has not ever been proven and will probably never be proven in a combat sport.

 

I agree with your second paragraph. It was like this in Pride for a reason... because the point is to finish, but wrestling helps you finish. If you do nothing with it then what is the use of it?

 

I also agree with your third statement.

 

dude dont complain about it tell your lil fan boy fighters to do something about it.. Wrestling is the most dominant b/c 9/10 the wrestler is faster' date=' stronger, smarter, cardio, explosive and has more heart than the opponent.. giving him the massive edge in taking the fight were he choses... Rashad WON get over it.. in dominant fashion i mite add.. Sorry the big scary slave looking black guy didnt stand up to your standards with his brute strength and i dont give a **** i fight attitude.. At least he's more man then you queres and can admit to a lost to a well rounded oppoenet...[/quote']

 

I am not a fanboy of any of any fighter really. I have always been neutral in the way I look at fights.

 

Wrestling is not "faster, stronger, smarter, cardio, explosive and has more heart", it is a way to get a better position. Like Judo without the submissions, or like Greco. You use it to get a better position.

 

I dont know what "this giving him the massive edge in taking the fight were he choses" means.

 

Rashad did win. We saw that. Anyone with a brain knows who won the fight, and the reason is because of our experience with the current scoring system.

 

They both are well rounded fighters. Rashad did not show his well rounded skills though. He focused on wrestling and attempting to take Rampage down for most of the fight which SCORED IN THE JUDGES EYES even though Rampage was defending a lot of them. Does this make sense? Not really, but with this system.. this is how everyone is looking at it.

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Shogun won't lose to Rashad. Who cares if they're Wrestlers? It works right? If you appreciate the sport and you are a true fan, you will know that Wrestling is part of the sport, and being a good Wrestler makes you a good MMA fighter. It's called Mixed Martial Arts for a reason.

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Shogun won't lose to Rashad. Who cares if they're Wrestlers? It works right? If you appreciate the sport and you are a true fan' date=' you will know that Wrestling is part of the sport, and being a good Wrestler makes you a good MMA fighter. It's called Mixed Martial Arts for a reason.[/quote']

 

This statement is contradicting itself.

 

You just said "being a good wrestler makes you a good mma fighter". This is not true. It makes you have ONE of the FOUR major areas of MMA. Yet, the judging is based around that ONE PART of MMA. Then you said it is "Mixed Martial Arts for a reason", which I am assuming means that when referring to MMA and each of its major pieces, they are all treated and scored rather fairly.

 

So, if you are great at three part of MMA, and not good at the one part which for some reason is scored the highest, then you can lose to that one piece repeatedly. That means this is "wrestling with martial arts" as opposed to MMA.

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