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Grappling is so more advanced than striking in MMA


Furiousmat

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That's right. I see a lot of people complaining about wrestling and grappling, while cheering for the bang only. But what bugs me is that the vast majority of fighters in the UFC are very weak strikers. Some of them are very good and technical, that's true, but lots of them really just suck. And when I say suck, I mean that most of them, although they're pro fighters, would get their **** handed to them by the best local boxer in their gym in a boxing match. And we're talking here about the average top boxer of the gym who, even if he's kinda good, doesn't have a significant pro carreer and is virtually unknown to the public because he isn't close to the top of boxing.

 

So most of the time the exchanges are just pathetic sways of the hands in any direction without control, no hands up, no foot work, nothing. To make it quick, most of the time, it looks like an amateur kick boxing match.

 

But it's when it comes to grappling that it really becomes interesting. The UFC has some very good BJJ practitionners, some guys who have won world championships in BJJ, or other grappling sports. People who competed at high levels in wrestling. So if we count out the very few minority of strikers who actually know what they're doing when they're standing up, the grapping game gives us a show of way higher caliber than the striking. I certainly love to see Anderson Silva pull out his best tricks, but let's face it guys : the koeran zombie vs Garcia, a fight that many people said was one of the best fights of the decade, was very ****ty technicaly speaking except for like 2 or 3 sweet moves.

 

So my point is this : those who whine about wrestling and grappling because they think it's borring are not watching the UFC for the right reasons. They expect something that really isn't the norm. And because they don't understand the subtleties of grappling, they don't appreciate when they see high level wrestling or high level BJJ. It's a sad thing because it really is what should be impressing them in that sport, cuz the striking itself, in most fights, is close to amateur.

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That's right. I see a lot of people complaining about wrestling and grappling' date=' while cheering for the bang only. But what bugs me is that the vast majority of fighters in the UFC are very weak strikers. Some of them are very good and technical, that's true, but lots of them really just suck. And when I say suck, I mean that most of them, although they're pro fighters, would get their **** handed to them by the best local boxer in their gym in a boxing match. And we're talking here about the average top boxer of the gym who, even if he's kinda good, doesn't have a significant pro carreer and is virtually unknown to the public because he isn't close to the top of boxing.

 

So most of the time the exchanges are just pathetic sways of the hands in any direction without control, no hands up, no foot work, nothing. To make it quick, most of the time, it looks like an amateur kick boxing match.

 

But it's when it comes to grappling that it really becomes interesting. The UFC has some very good BJJ practitionners, some guys who have won world championships in BJJ, or other grappling sports. People who competed at high levels in wrestling. So if we count out the very few minority of strikers who actually know what they're doing when they're standing up, the grapping game gives us a show of way higher caliber than the striking. I certainly love to see Anderson Silva pull out his best tricks, but let's face it guys : the koeran zombie vs Garcia, a fight that many people said was one of the best fights of the decade, was very ****ty technicaly speaking except for like 2 or 3 sweet moves.

 

So my point is this : those who whine about wrestling and grappling because they think it's borring are not watching the UFC for the right reasons. They expect something that really isn't the norm. And because they don't understand the subtleties of grappling, they don't appreciate when they see high level wrestling or high level BJJ. It's a sad thing because it really is what should be impressing them in that sport, cuz the striking itself, in most fights, is close to amateur.[/quote']

 

I'm not bashing this. I kinda agree. I like most of the grappling matches but when the grappling is one sided and he is only inflicting enough damage to score points is the boring part. I recently took up BJJ myself and I know there's alot of minor moves or holds that people don't see that keeps a fighter out of danger. I also wanted to point out the part about hands down or back foot work. Alot of those guys aren't high level grapplers so they often try to hesitate a take down so it throws of their striking rhythm. All in all I agree tho and people don't need to keep crying Snooze Fest and keep a more open mind to MIXED MARTIAL ARTS

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You have freakish strikers like Anderson Silva, BJ Penn, and Jose Aldo. Then you have freakish grapplers like GSP, Brock, and Maia.

 

The fact of the matter is all the strikers I mentioned are also phenomenal grapplers. The grapplers I mentioned range from average to poor in the striking department.

 

Have I made myself clear?

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THIS IS PROFOUNDLY TRUE.

 

One of my biggest gripes with MMA (which i love) has been the poor overall quality of strikers. Whats even more confusing is the times when fights spiral off into jurassic-era esque slugfests and the audience starts cheering, which would be fine if they didnt also BOO when two very talented strikers spend a lot of time throwing feigns (sp?) and 'feeling' each other out rather than engaging in a mindless brawl. To me, thats more enjoyable than seeing two low-quality strikers just slam each other in the face. (Just a side note I do enjoy that from time to time.)

 

I dont want to sound eliteist... But sometimes it seems like fans are contempt with this low-level of striking many fighters exhibit. I just cant wrap my head around the booing that usually goes on when two great strikers are getting thier timing down pre-engagement. Maybe thats just me. Thats why I enjoy people like anderson silva and rampage jackson, thiago silva, frankie edgar, machida, rua.... regardless of your opinion of the aformentioned strikers, they are in general at a much higher level of striking than a lot of the guys in MMA.

 

Striking needs desperately to catch up to the grappling. And im also not saying every guy in MMA needs to be a great striker.

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Ok clowns, listen up. This is MMA not boxing. What is the main difference? Come on, think, think! Ok, here's a hint. Grappling! This is MMA style Boxing because you need to create angles and distance unlike a Boxer who just needs to worry about putting up his 10 oz gloves to protect himself with no concern for a headkick or TD, knee, ect ect. Nice argument but it's based on little MMA knowledge and why things are the way they are.

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Snip.

 

You have to understand that MMA boxing and plain old boxing are two totally different things.

 

If a pure boxer comes into MMA he could get owned by someone that understands the even pure boxing needs adjustments for MMA in the way you block and bob n weaving alot is a no no because of knees and kicks. Your stance because of kicks and takedowns.

 

These are not boxing gloves there wearing so defense is a little different. There is a reason why in mma alot of fighters like the less technical looking hooks, overhands etc. brawler style.

 

If someone comes in with very heavy hooks, overhands in mma you'd better get the hell out of the way or clinch where in boxing it might be okay to block you can't get away with that as much in mma.

 

There's also the fact that fighters have to train all aspects where boxers only concentrate on one so ofcourse they will be a better technical boxer.

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The people who complain about lay and pray don't dislike the ground game. Like me what they want to see is when somebody takes somebody else down they either start dropping bombs or attempting to sumbit their opponent, that is ground game. What isn't ground game is when a guy doesn't even try to finish the fight on the ground and just lays on his opponent trying to edge out a decision.(Rashad) Take downs shouldn't count for anything if you don't do anything with it.

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majority of mma fighters r wrestlers and bjj guys who want somewhere else to compete (koscheck penn gonzaga couture)

according to the ignorant black **** hole boxers (toney, mayweather) mma is just a bunch of white beer drinkers who couldnt cut it in boxing. what a bunch of racist ****s

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That's right. I see a lot of people complaining about wrestling and grappling' date=' while cheering for the bang only. But what bugs me is that the vast majority of fighters in the UFC are very weak strikers. Some of them are very good and technical, that's true, but lots of them really just suck. And when I say suck, I mean that most of them, although they're pro fighters, would get their **** handed to them by the best local boxer in their gym in a boxing match. And we're talking here about the average top boxer of the gym who, even if he's kinda good, doesn't have a significant pro carreer and is virtually unknown to the public because he isn't close to the top of boxing.

 

So most of the time the exchanges are just pathetic sways of the hands in any direction without control, no hands up, no foot work, nothing. To make it quick, most of the time, it looks like an amateur kick boxing match.

 

But it's when it comes to grappling that it really becomes interesting. The UFC has some very good BJJ practitionners, some guys who have won world championships in BJJ, or other grappling sports. People who competed at high levels in wrestling. So if we count out the very few minority of strikers who actually know what they're doing when they're standing up, the grapping game gives us a show of way higher caliber than the striking. I certainly love to see Anderson Silva pull out his best tricks, but let's face it guys : the koeran zombie vs Garcia, a fight that many people said was one of the best fights of the decade, was very ****ty technicaly speaking except for like 2 or 3 sweet moves.

 

So my point is this : those who whine about wrestling and grappling because they think it's borring are not watching the UFC for the right reasons. They expect something that really isn't the norm. And because they don't understand the subtleties of grappling, they don't appreciate when they see high level wrestling or high level BJJ. It's a sad thing because it really is what should be impressing them in that sport, cuz the striking itself, in most fights, is close to amateur.[/quote']

 

I enjoy the stand up, but have been standing on this same soap box as you brotha. If you like MMA, you like it all. UFC wouldn't even be here if not for the urge to test BJJ against other martial arts.

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The people who complain about lay and pray don't dislike the ground game. Like me what they want to see is when somebody takes somebody else down they either start dropping bombs or attempting to sumbit their opponent' date=' that is ground game. What isn't ground game is when a guy doesn't even try to finish the fight on the ground and just lays on his opponent trying to edge out a decision.(Rashad) Take downs shouldn't count for anything if you don't do anything with it.[/quote']

I agree but keep in mind that the guy on the bottom is also defending in such a manner to stifle the top guy from being able to strike or submit them. Some hold on for dear life trying to force a stand up and it works. Saying that it's not right for the top guy to "LnP" to me is the same as a bottom guy who just holds on to force a stand up rather than learning submissions or escapes.

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the reason behind lack of all that figure skating foot work??? hmmm.. idk maybe perhaps possibly because while your showing off your best shimmy the guy with ground work, will scoop you and drop you on your cranium..

 

if you want to be a boxer, take up boxing.. you wont see a guy trying to be a pro boxer in mma, because you need to be versitile in everything, and boxers dont work on anything but hands.

 

you can be the fastest hands in the octagon, go up against a guy with a titanium chin, your game is done.

 

the most you want from striking is a good combination game, and hope for k.o punches and/or rocking power.

 

other wise BBJ guys and greco roman wrestlers will just dismantle you like lego sets.

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I agree but keep in mind that the guy on the bottom is also defending in such a manner to stifle the top guy from being able to strike or submit them. Some hold on for dear life trying to force a stand up and it works. Saying that it's not right for the top guy to "LnP" to me is the same as a bottom guy who just holds on to force a stand up rather than learning submissions or escapes.

 

Good point. This is much like a boxer who always clinches with his opponent to avoid getting tagged.

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You have freakish strikers like Anderson Silva' date=' BJ Penn, and Jose Aldo. Then you have freakish grapplers like GSP, Brock, and Maia.

 

The fact of the matter is all the strikers I mentioned are also phenomenal grapplers. The grapplers I mentioned range from average to poor in the striking department.

 

Have I made myself clear?[/quote']

 

The 3 strikers you mentioned would get eaten up against a real boxer or K1 fighter. That is the point of this thread. They may be very good in MMA, but they also are'nt striking against great strikers. Plus Hughes is not a great striker but a very good wrestler and he pounded Penn the second time. So even Penn is'nt world class on stand up. Bjj maybe, but not striking. And don't come out with that "he just was'nt in shape" bs. A great striker is always in shape. You're not world class if you show up out of shape to any fight. Because a world class striker would'nt even let the thought of fighting slightly out of shape enter their mind. Another point proven.

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You are right. Honestly I find it almost embarrassing how rudimentary the striking of a lot of mma fighters is. Hard to believe many of them have boxing coaches. Yeah they probably all train muay thai and other disciplines but imho a good dose of boxing training would go a long way to making some of these fighters a LOT better. I mean, why the hell can almost no one ever use an effective jab? The jab sets everything up! And what's with all the looping overhand punches? Keep the punches short and you beat the opponent to it every time, plus you don't leave yourself nearly as open for counters. Yet over and over they do the same beginners crap. The mind boggles.

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Ok clowns' date=' listen up. This is MMA not boxing. What is the main difference? Come on, think, think! Ok, here's a hint. Grappling! This is MMA style Boxing because you need to create angles and distance unlike a Boxer who just needs to worry about putting up his 10 oz gloves to protect himself with no concern for a headkick or TD, knee, ect ect. Nice argument but it's based on little MMA knowledge and why things are the way they are.[/quote']

 

And what is the reason so many mma fighters throw ridiculous overhand punches? And what is the reason almost no mma fighters have a clue as to how to throw and use a jab? Nice theory you have and in a small part it's true, but the main factor is mma fighters just don't seem to put as much time into boxing as into grappling.

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I mean' date=' why the hell can almost no one ever use an effective jab? The jab sets everything up! And what's with all the looping overhand punches? Keep the punches short and you beat the opponent to it every time, plus you don't leave yourself nearly as open for counters. Yet over and over they do the same beginners crap. The mind boggles.[/quote']

 

 

I'm seeing more mma fighters incorporate the jab effectively. Plus the 'round' overhead punches work well in a combat sport privy to level changes...striking in mma may not be at the level of the pure striking sports, but it is evolving for sure.

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Ok clowns' date=' listen up. This is MMA not boxing. What is the main difference? Come on, think, think! Ok, here's a hint. Grappling! This is MMA style Boxing because you need to create angles and distance unlike a Boxer who just needs to worry about putting up his 10 oz gloves to protect himself with no concern for a headkick or TD, knee, ect ect. Nice argument but it's based on little MMA knowledge and why things are the way they are.[/quote']

 

Of course I'm not saying that a pro boxer tossed into a MMA match would do good. And it's kinda normal that we don't see much guys coming from a good pro boxing carreer to MMA because they would have nothing to gain from it.. They already make good money and compete in a real competitive sport.

 

The fact is still that the quality of the stand up game is just light years behind the level of grappling for most fighters. Very few guys who actually focus on stand up and who are known as strikers can really claim to be high level strikers, while the opposite is not true : the guys who focus on their ground game actually have a very, very good ground game.

 

I know also that all strikers have to adapt their styles, angles and distance and all due to takedowns. But I would expect to see guys coming from pro kick boxing leagues or tae kwon do or karate or whatever style you want, who would of course adapt their style and train their ground game, but still be able to demonstrate a high level of technique while standing up. Right now, these are exceptions.

 

And yet, it bothers me to see that despite this lack of quality of the strikers, people cheer mostly for the bang, and boo for the grappling. People want the rules changed to reduce the efficiency of grappling, to stand the fighters more often, to nerf the wrestlers. Why? when I pay to watch pros fight I want to see A-game fights, and the more they're going to stand these guys up, the more we'll see dome D-game fights, cuz the striking just plain sucks.

 

Oh and btw. The few really good strikers seem to also understand how to not get taken down too often (exemple : A.Silva and Machida).

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The 3 strikers you mentioned would get eaten up against a real boxer or K1 fighter. That is the point of this thread. They may be very good in MMA' date=' but they also are'nt striking against great strikers. Plus Hughes is not a great striker but a very good wrestler and he pounded Penn the second time. [/quote']

 

you're right. the only one I have doubts about it Anderson Silva. Of course he'd be owned in a boxing match but in a muay thai tournament I think he could go kinda far. But you're still right. These fighters are good, I don't deny it. But their striking, for sure, is shining even more because most of the time they fight against fighters who really are at amateur level with their stand up.. actually now that I think of it, maybe if the UFC would modify some rules to push striking a bit more, we would see a better quality of striking, as the fighters would have to spend more time on their striking and a bit less on their grappling.

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And what is the reason so many mma fighters throw ridiculous overhand punches? And what is the reason almost no mma fighters have a clue as to how to throw and use a jab? Nice theory you have and in a small part it's true' date=' but the main factor is mma fighters just don't seem to put as much time into boxing as into grappling.[/quote']

 

Of course I'm not saying that a pro boxer tossed into a MMA match would do good. And it's kinda normal that we don't see much guys coming from a good pro boxing carreer to MMA because they would have nothing to gain from it.. They already make good money and compete in a real competitive sport.

 

The fact is still that the quality of the stand up game is just light years behind the level of grappling for most fighters. Very few guys who actually focus on stand up and who are known as strikers can really claim to be high level strikers' date=' while the opposite is not true : the guys who focus on their ground game actually have a very, very good ground game.

 

I know also that all strikers have to adapt their styles, angles and distance and all due to takedowns. But I would expect to see guys coming from pro kick boxing leagues or tae kwon do or karate or whatever style you want, who would of course adapt their style and train their ground game, but still be able to demonstrate a high level of technique while standing up. Right now, these are exceptions.

 

And yet, it bothers me to see that despite this lack of quality of the strikers, people cheer mostly for the bang, and boo for the grappling. People want the rules changed to reduce the efficiency of grappling, to stand the fighters more often, to nerf the wrestlers. Why? when I pay to watch pros fight I want to see A-game fights, and the more they're going to stand these guys up, the more we'll see dome D-game fights, cuz the striking just plain sucks.

 

Oh and btw. The few really good strikers seem to also understand how to not get taken down too often (exemple : A.Silva and Machida).[/quote']

 

Mine is not a theory it's a fact boys. MMA is just that and the number of diciplines involved are rarely mastered. Wrestlers come into MMA with this base already in place and most dont become high level Wrestlers if this is not their background. Same goes with BJJ practictioners, ect ect. You take your base and try to expand it as much as possible while maintaining your base. Wrestlers are the most dominant form to start making a mixed martial artist. Add some striking to the mix and you are no longer one dimensional and predictable. Boxing is an art just like BJJ or Wrestling, Muai Thai or Karate. To master all is almost impossible and would take a lifetime, but to be competant in all is where you need to be in order to compete at a high level. If a true Boxer enters the world of MMA he needs enough Wrestling ( TDD ) to be able to use his base. Against a Wrestler a pure Boxer loses most of the time and therefore doesn't make the best mixed martial artist.

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