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James Toney vs Randy Couture... The Big Picture.


Shady_Champ

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First off I'd like to say that I know AK could and would do a better job at explaining this(No it's not a troll thread)

 

But just imagine how many young boxers would start training MMA too if Toney had some success. With Boxing being damn near dead with only 1 fight left(Manny vs Floyd) Imagine how many great strikers there would be training MMA with it's growing popularity.

 

Young kids who go to boxing competitions would also be taking wrestling in High School. Could you imagine a Golden Glove/Div 1 college Champion. He would be a beast!

 

This could open the doors for so many fighters and fans. Not the "WWE Morons" that Brock brought(allthough not all of them are bad) But true fight/boxing fans it would be great for the sport as a whole.

 

So come UFC 118 fight your urge to root for MMA vs Boxing and Root for MMA in the longrun. They can win this battle but MMA will eventually win the war.

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I disagree' date=' If kids see how boxing can beat MMA why would they wan't to start MMA?[/quote']

 

But with MMA's gorwing popularity and boxing being damn near dead. I think it would pull some "boxers" to MMA. I'm sure since Brocks and other college wrestlers success that alot more college wrestlers are training to be in the MMA rather then the WWE now. If MMA was as big as it is now back when Brock came out of college could you imagine? That's what we're gonna start getting an influx of wrestlers. If a pure boxer makes it then Alot of Boxers will up their game IMO.

 

Bottom line is I think it would do more good for the sports future if Toney won. And I don't even think Randy losing would hurt the sport at all. Again just my opinion.

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I see it in pretty much the exact opposite way. Toney whole reasoning for fighting MMA is to try and prove that boxing is a better sport with better fighters than MMA.

 

I see where you're coming from. Hell even if nothing else it could make future wrestling MMA fighters take some boxing classes to help make them more well rounded early. If they see a wrestler go out and lose to a pure striker they may realize that wrestling isn't enough. Right now they could be new fans that see GSP and Brock, Chael and others just take people down and control them they may think they hardly need to train the striking.

 

Pause

 

I'm not saying GSP doesn't have great striking because he does. I watched UFC on spike sunday and saw a great KO and was reminded of it. (I miss that GSP)

 

So I still think it would be a win for the sport. Just like how england based guys are starting to work on wrestling because they see their strikers getting owned by it. Royce Gracie made BJJ huge in MMA by tooling wrestlers and strikers. He made people realize that you need to know a good portion of defense against this if you're going to implicate your game plan.

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A wrestler will put any boxer on his **** with one takedown, should the boxer fail to land that 1 uppercut.

 

I think as the sport gets bigger, and the paydays begin to increase, you will start to see a massive influx of new top athletic talent make their way to MMA. Kids will grow up competing in multiple martial arts, instead of being raised to only compete in one. These one dimensional wrestlers are forcing strikers to elevate their wrestling game, which in turn will make these wrestlers elevate their striking game.. Because if they can't get it to the ground, they're F'd.. and if Boxers can't keep it on feet, they're F'd. A catch-22 that will become extinct, as fighters of the future will be so well rounded, that a stylistic match up like that, won't really exist any longer.

 

There will always be mediocre fighters who don't have the ability to be dominant in multiple martial arts. But as for the best of the best, it will be a true test of who can mix it up the best. Not just solely relying on the stand up game, or wrestling, but utilize their wrestling to open up their striking, using their striking to set up the takedown, while being competent on the ground to implement solid GnP, and instantly take any submission that happens to open up. It will become instinct for fighter's of the future, we'll see much faster paced and more exciting fights because of it.. I've watched countless fights where fighters' with no real BJJ background, have opportunities to finish the fight, but aren't well versed in submissions to even attempt one. The days of those kinds of fights are numbered. Atleast at the highest level it will be anyway.

 

MMA will continue to evolve, as other fighters adapt to their competition, and the best continue to set the bar even higher. Like a benchmark, for other fighters to strive to reach, because if they don't stay on top of their game, and evolve with the the best, they'll get left in the dust. That's what's great about competition. I look at what GSP is doing, and see it as what Royce Gracie did for MMA in the early days. Shined light on the weakness of a lot of fighters, exposed them and forced them to shore up the holes in their games, if they want to stay relevant.

 

In the end, it will only benefit MMA, and make fighter's realize, just because they're a beast on the feet, that it doesn't mean jack when they're fighting off their back. James Toney is in for a rude awakening if he thinks his boxing alone is going to get him anywhere in MMA. He basically has one hail mary uppercut he can throw to win him a fight. Even against an old man like Randy who has slowed down considerably in the last year, his odds are slim to none. If Boxers are content with just having a puncher's chance in every fight, then that's their prerogative.

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A wrestler will put any boxer on his **** with one takedown' date=' should the boxer fail to land that 1 uppercut.

 

I think as the sport gets bigger, and the paydays begin to increase, you will start to see a massive influx of new top athletic talent make their way to MMA. Kids will grow up competing in multiple martial arts, instead of being raised to only compete in one. These one dimensional wrestlers are forcing strikers to elevate their wrestling game, which in turn will make these wrestlers elevate their striking game.. Because if they can't get it to the ground, they're F'd.. and if Boxers can't keep it on feet, they're F'd. A catch-22 that will become extinct, as fighters of the future will be so well rounded, that a stylistic match up like that, won't really exist any longer.

 

There will always be mediocre fighters who don't have the ability to be dominant in multiple martial arts. But as for the best of the best, it will be a true test of who can mix it up the best. Not just solely relying on the stand up game, or wrestling, but utilize their wrestling to open up their striking, using their striking to set up the takedown, while being competent on the ground to implement solid GnP, and instantly take any submission that happens to open up. It will become instinct for fighter's of the future, we'll see much faster paced and more exciting fights because of it.. I've watched countless fights where fighters' with no real BJJ background, have opportunities to finish the fight, but aren't well versed in submissions to even attempt one. The days of those kinds of fights are numbered. Atleast at the highest level it will be anyway.

 

MMA will continue to evolve, as other fighters adapt to their competition, and the best continue to set the bar even higher. Like a benchmark, for other fighters to strive to reach, because if they don't stay on top of their game, and evolve with the the best, they'll get left in the dust. That's what's great about competition. I look at what GSP is doing, and see it as what Royce Gracie did for MMA in the early days. Shined light on the weakness of a lot of fighters, exposed them and forced them to shore up the holes in their games, if they want to stay relevant.

 

In the end, it will only benefit MMA, and make fighter's realize, just because they're a beast on the feet, that it doesn't mean jack when they're fighting off their back. James Toney is in for a rude awakening if he thinks his boxing alone is going to get him anywhere in MMA. He basically has one hail mary uppercut he can throw to win him a fight. Even against an old man like Randy who has slowed down considerably in the last year, his odds are slim to none. If Boxers are content with just having a puncher's chance in every fight, then that's their prerogative.[/quote']

 

perfect definition of hitting the nail on the head.. one trick ponies have no chance in this sport they will be found out sooner or later, most likly sooner

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First off I'd like to say that I know AK could and would do a better job at explaining this(No it's not a troll thread)

 

 

A wrestler will put any boxer on his **** with one takedown' date=' should the boxer fail to land that 1 uppercut.

 

I think as the sport gets bigger, and the paydays begin to increase, you will start to see a massive influx of new top athletic talent make their way to MMA. Kids will grow up competing in multiple martial arts, instead of being raised to only compete in one. These one dimensional wrestlers are forcing strikers to elevate their wrestling game, which in turn will make these wrestlers elevate their striking game.. Because if they can't get it to the ground, they're F'd.. and if Boxers can't keep it on feet, they're F'd. A catch-22 that will become extinct, as fighters of the future will be so well rounded, that a stylistic match up like that, won't really exist any longer.

 

There will always be mediocre fighters who don't have the ability to be dominant in multiple martial arts. But as for the best of the best, it will be a true test of who can mix it up the best. Not just solely relying on the stand up game, or wrestling, but utilize their wrestling to open up their striking, using their striking to set up the takedown, while being competent on the ground to implement solid GnP, and instantly take any submission that happens to open up. It will become instinct for fighter's of the future, we'll see much faster paced and more exciting fights because of it.. I've watched countless fights where fighters' with no real BJJ background, have opportunities to finish the fight, but aren't well versed in submissions to even attempt one. The days of those kinds of fights are numbered. Atleast at the highest level it will be anyway.

 

MMA will continue to evolve, as other fighters adapt to their competition, and the best continue to set the bar even higher. Like a benchmark, for other fighters to strive to reach, because if they don't stay on top of their game, and evolve with the the best, they'll get left in the dust. That's what's great about competition. I look at what GSP is doing, and see it as what Royce Gracie did for MMA in the early days. Shined light on the weakness of a lot of fighters, exposed them and forced them to shore up the holes in their games, if they want to stay relevant.

 

In the end, it will only benefit MMA, and make fighter's realize, just because they're a beast on the feet, that it doesn't mean jack when they're fighting off their back. James Toney is in for a rude awakening if he thinks his boxing alone is going to get him anywhere in MMA. He basically has one hail mary uppercut he can throw to win him a fight. Even against an old man like Randy who has slowed down considerably in the last year, his odds are slim to none. If Boxers are content with just having a puncher's chance in every fight, then that's their prerogative.[/quote']

 

Like I said you would be able to put it in much better words. That's basically what I was getting to and said in defending replys. If toney wins maybe it will make wrestlers wanna evolve more. But all and all you explained it better then I did. Thanks AK Props to you.

 

PS how long do you have to wear that Avatar?

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Like I said you would be able to put it in much better words. That's basically what I was getting to and said in defending replys. If toney wins maybe it will make wrestlers wanna evolve more. But all and all you explained it better then I did. Thanks AK Props to you.

 

PS how long do you have to wear that Avatar?

 

 

Yeah I knew exactly what you meant, you raised an excellent point. and since you gave me a shout out, I felt like I should reply. Moneyshot seemed to be missing the overall point you were making in your original post.

 

As for the avy, I think it expires after UFC 116.. Pretty sure it was a 2 month bet.

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But with MMA's gorwing popularity and boxing being damn near dead. I think it would pull some "boxers" to MMA. I'm sure since Brocks and other college wrestlers success that alot more college wrestlers are training to be in the MMA rather then the WWE now. If MMA was as big as it is now back when Brock came out of college could you imagine? That's what we're gonna start getting an influx of wrestlers. If a pure boxer makes it then Alot of Boxers will up their game IMO.

 

Bottom line is I think it would do more good for the sports future if Toney won. And I don't even think Randy losing would hurt the sport at all. Again just my opinion.

 

You've made an interesting theory. Unfortunatley, it's with the wrong contenders. Couture's gonna beat up Toney and take him out with a submission. Try the Lesnar v Carwin fight. Everybody thinks Carwin's gonna KO Lesnar. One punch, One hit.

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There will always be mediocre fighters who don't have the ability to be dominant in multiple martial arts. But as for the best of the best' date=' it will be a true test of who can mix it up the best. Not just solely relying on the stand up game, or wrestling, but utilize their wrestling to open up their striking, using their striking to set up the takedown, while being competent on the ground to implement solid GnP, and instantly take any submission that happens to open up. It will become instinct for fighter's of the future, we'll see much faster paced and more exciting fights because of it.. I've watched countless fights where fighters' with no real BJJ background, have opportunities to finish the fight, but aren't well versed in submissions to even attempt one. The days of those kinds of fights are numbered. Atleast at the highest level it will be anyway.[/quote']

 

I totally agree. In fact, we're already starting to see this. Rory MacDonald has been training pure MMA since he was 14. He's one of the new breed of fighters that won't be coming from one discipline and have to learn the others. He's only 20 years old and gave Carlos Condit a pretty good fight. Just imagine how good he'll be when he hits his prime.

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You did just as good or even better than AK.

 

Thank you. Although I feel he did a better job on elaborating on the topic, the fact that you though I did better and you have more then 10 posts is a complement. With that said I think you broke it down much clearer then I did. All and all it was great teamwork:)

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Id hate to see Tony win against Couture because he shows no respect for the sport at all I dont think he even started training takedown defense ore other parts of the game just a bit. But i agree that it would be great to have more boxers at mma, I really like KJ Noons for example with his style of fighting. And even though you need to be well rounded to be successfull, fighters will always have strong and weak points partly because of their way training partly because of there natural abilities. To have a lot of muscel helps for example in the clinchgame and for takedowns but it wil be bad for your striking and movement. Its really enjoy to see how different skillsets work out against each other.

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I think as the sport gets bigger, and the paydays begin to increase, you will start to see a massive "influx of new top athletic talent make their way to MMA. Kids will grow up competing in multiple martial arts, instead of being raised to only compete in one. These one dimensional wrestlers are forcing strikers to elevate their wrestling game, which in turn will make these wrestlers elevate their striking game.. Because if they can't get it to the ground, they're F'd.. and if Boxers can't keep it on feet, they're F'd. A catch-22 that will become extinct, as fighters of the future will be so well rounded, that a stylistic match up like that, won't really exist any longer."

 

I've heard that before, i believe your quoting Joe Rogan on youtube will find it and expose you.

 

"Been watching MMA since day 1... No questions asked.

 

Been a fan of Anderson Silva since DAY 1... No questions asked" -NOBODY CARES

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I think as the sport gets bigger' date=' and the paydays begin to increase, you will start to see a massive "influx of new top athletic talent make their way to MMA. Kids will grow up competing in multiple martial arts, instead of being raised to only compete in one. These one dimensional wrestlers are forcing strikers to elevate their wrestling game, which in turn will make these wrestlers elevate their striking game.. Because if they can't get it to the ground, they're F'd.. and if Boxers can't keep it on feet, they're F'd. A catch-22 that will become extinct, as fighters of the future will be so well rounded, that a stylistic match up like that, won't really exist any longer."

 

I've heard that before, i believe your quoting Joe Rogan on youtube will find it and expose you.

 

"Been watching MMA since day 1... No questions asked.

 

Been a fan of Anderson Silva since DAY 1... No questions asked" -NOBODY CARES[/quote']

 

How's that search going? I'm still waiting to be exposed..

 

If I took it from Joe Rogan, I would have quoted Joe Rogan and gave him credit, but I would never plagiarize anyone's work, word for word and play it off as my own.. I have my own opinions. It may be similar to what someone else has said, but if I knew about it, I'd have just quoted them and not bothered writing my own response.

 

I'll just take your claim as a compliment. I'd still like to see the piece of footage you're referring to though, so please post. I want to see how similar my post was to what he said.

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AK did an amazing job on that post. Put it exactly right.

 

The fighters will continue to evolve. And I like OP idea of a Golden Gloves/Division I hybrid fighter. I honestly don't think it will be too long before someone like that does come around. We've all seen amazing displays of both striking and ground prowess in MMA. And as the future generations watch, they're going to not only aspire to be like the top dogs in MMA, they're gonna want to be better. And so they're going to work harder and train smarter so that they one day do overshadow them. And then the next generation is going to watch them and aspire to be even better than them.

 

We've already seen it happen within the last almost twenty years. We've seen guys like Royce Gracie, Shamrock, Coleman act as the first generation of top dogs. Then came along the Matt Hughes, Ortiz, Couture, Liddell in the second generation. And now, at the third generation, we have Penn, GSP, Silva, Shogun, Lesnar. It makes me extremely interested in what the next generation is going to bring to the game that will surpass what these men have.

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