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End of the Invincibles?

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About this time last year we had as champs:

 

BJ

GSP

Andersen

Machida

Lesnar

 

And the talk on the boards was how it was tough to see any of them losing in the near future.

 

Since then BJ has been outboxed by Edgar, Andersen got GnP'ed by Sonnen for 4.5 rounds, Machida got owned by Shogun twice and Lesnar got pummelled to within a whisker of TKO by Carwin.

 

GSP has managed a couple of pretty overwhelming LnP victories against strikers but they were hardly highlight reel stuff.

 

Although it's nice to buy into the myth of champs as unbeatable supermen, the reality is that, as the level of MMA continues to climb, holding onto a belt for long will get harder and harder.

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BJ was not outboxed by Edgar, he was out headswiveled by Edgar. According to the stats, I believe Penn landed more shots total and more to the head. I think the only reason Edgar won was that everyone made a big deal about Penns amazing ability to not get taken down. And Edgar got like 2 of 9 takedown attempts or something and the judges were in awe for some reason. The list should be 4/5 fixed in a couple weeks.

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bj was not outboxed by edgar' date=' he was out headswiveled by edgar. According to the stats, i believe penn landed more shots total and more to the head. I think the only reason edgar won was that everyone made a big deal about penns amazing ability to not get taken down. And edgar got like 2 of 9 takedown attempts or something and the judges were in awe for some reason. The list should be 4/5 fixed in a couple weeks.[/quote']

 

+1000

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About this time last year we had as champs:

 

BJ

GSP

Andersen

Machida

Lesnar

 

And the talk on the boards was how it was tough to see any of them losing in the near future.

 

Since then BJ has been outboxed by Edgar' date=' Andersen got GnP'ed by Sonnen for 4.5 rounds, Machida got owned by Shogun twice and Lesnar got pummelled to within a whisker of TKO by Carwin.

 

GSP has managed a couple of pretty overwhelming LnP victories against strikers but they were hardly highlight reel stuff.

 

Although it's nice to buy into the myth of champs as unbeatable supermen, the reality is that, as the level of MMA continues to climb, holding onto a belt for long will get harder and harder.[/quote']

 

Ok first off Machida didnt get owned by Shogun twice it was once. the first fight was back and forth, it wasnt a destruction of anyone. Second GSP hasnt LnP anyone in a while if ever. Jon Fitch LnP's GSP works to pass and transition as well as work his GnP and try for subs if he has a chance at one.

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Ok first off Machida didnt get owned by Shogun twice it was once. the first fight was back and forth' date=' it wasnt a destruction of anyone. Second GSP hasnt LnP anyone in a while if ever. Jon Fitch LnP's GSP works to pass and transition as well as work his GnP and try for subs if he has a chance at one.[/quote']

 

GSP hasn't Lnp'd in a while if ever? I'm sry you must be watching the wrong fighter because the so called p4p best and welterweight champ got tko'd and then LnP'd cause he's scared of getting hit!

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GSP hasn't Lnp'd in a while if ever? I'm sry you must be watching the wrong fighter because the so called p4p best and welterweight champ got tko'd and then LnP'd cause he's scared of getting hit!

 

Show me how hes LnP'd i watch a fighter that actually hits his opponents when he gets them to the ground.

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Im thinkin that Lesnar is the next to fall. Cain is the phenom that every Lesnar hater needs to rally behind. JDS is good, and one tuff costomer, but Lesnar is bigger than and faster than him so I think it would be one sided for the most part. With Carwin's steroid implication, I think he will be gone soon. Minitoro is still the man, and will take out the tougher compitition for the next year or two before he retires.

 

Anderson wasnt destroyed or anything. Chael did what he said and dominated, but Anderson was setting up the triangle well and even tried it a couple of times before he finally landed it. Vitor is just another hype train (like Carwin) and will be derailed soon. Belcher's career may be over, Shields wants to stick to the Welterweight division and Marquardt hasnt changed too much since thier last meeting. Okami is just not good enough, nor lucky enough to get another DQ win over Silva. Silva will retire undefeated in the UFC.

 

Rua is the most in danger of losing his belt. Evans' adopted GSP style is going to be hell to stop. He hates to be hit and Shogun is one of the wildest strikers in MMA, one of the better off his back so that is the most exciting fight for the next year or so.

 

GSP is a machine that works harder than any other on the ground. His ability to put guys in his stronger points is flat amazing. He outstrikes grapplers, and out grapples strikers. Definatley the most complete fighter in MMA. Even if he loses, he is still the best fighter in the world in my opinion.

 

Edgar is the most underrated fighter in the UFC in my opinion. BJ getting the instant rematch is obsurd. His fan-nation is rivaled only by Fedor's. Maynard, Florian and even Sherk, Griffin and Guida are all legit threats, but Edgar's abilities to just win are phenominal. He reminds me of Doug Flutie. Just doesnt lose too often.

 

Just my two cents. Good call on the not so superhuman thing though. I sure didnt think BJ was going to lose. I didnt think Carwin was going to do what he did for three minutes. I DARN sure didnt think Sonnen had anything for Silva. Rua and GSP is no surprise though. Machida will come back. He left his elament and payed the price. He wont repeat anytime soon.

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Show me how hes LnP'd i watch a fighter that actually hits his opponents when he gets them to the ground.

 

Not to mention the fact that he has landed more strikes on the ground than any other fighter in his UFC career. Lets look at what we want so we can make our own conclusions.

 

This is a compliment to you by the way.

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Not to mention the fact that he has landed more strikes on the ground than any other fighter in his UFC career. Lets look at what we want so we can make our own conclusions.

 

This is a compliment to you by the way.

 

Yea thanks, i cant standin readin posts by ppl that just make assumptions.

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Yea thanks' date=' i cant standin readin posts by ppl that just make assumptions.[/quote']

 

I leave these forums because of guys that make comments that are just wrong. I have nothing against them, but really. Make sure you have ammo for the big gun youre trying to shoot.

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This is a post from another thread, just thought id repost it so i can settle this debate, i did not originally post this.

 

GSP’s fight’s whether you love them or loath them are without any shadow of doubt one sided! I don’t care what anyone says the last time GSP had a fight (other than his losses) that could have gone either way was his first fight against BJ.

His last few fights have been a master class from a guy who didn’t even do wrestling at school or college! And there is a reason behind this, you see standing the way he did leaves something to chance whereas taking people down means he controls the pace he controls his opponent he controls the outcome of the fight!

So why is it I heard all the ******** about the challenger must take the belt away from the champion! Apparently it only applies to the fighters you like, surely the onus is on the people fighting GSP to get better at wrestling and not be dominated on the ground not for GSP to give them all the chances in the world.

So next let’s address the people and you know who you are! Who say he does nothing on the floor.

As someone else pointed out there is a big difference between what GSP does and the so called lay and pray!

This is lay and pray

 

LAWAL v MOUSASI

11 takedowns but only 3 improvements on position= LNP

EVANS v BISPING

6 takedowns 4 improvements of position 38 total strikes landed (Bisping landed 52) =LNP

EVANS v SILVA 8 takedowns 4 improvements of position 3 strikes from the ground position and 21 total=LNP

 

While a lot of you may think FITCH falls into this category think again

 

FITCH v WILSON.. FITCH lands 129 strikes against 32 from WILSON 109 from the ground position

FITCH v LARSON.. FITCH lands 146 strikes against 19 from LARSON 118 from the ground position

FITCH v HIRONAKA.. FITCH lands 184 strikes against 17 from HIRONAKA 161 from the ground position

While he does not dramatically improve his position he is landing a lot of strikes= not LNP

 

 

GSP v HARDY

sub attempts by GSP 6 this is movement on the ground in an attempt to submit your opponent!

take downs 11 out of 11

improvement on position 26, including 11 to half guard 8 to side control 2 mounts

Strikes from distance 10, 174 strikes (humping) so he managed to throw 164 punches while on the floor well I don’t know about you guys you must do it different to me but when I **** the wife I never punch her!

GSP v ALVES

Strikes from distance 45, 149 total strikes (humping) 104 punches while on the ground!

Improvement on position 10 to half guard 1 mounts 2 to back this is movement it is not laying on someone!

GSP v PENN 2Strikes from distance 30, 297 strikes total (humping) wow a total of 267 strikes while grounded! No wonder he quit on his seat which in my opinion is worse than tapping to strikes!

Improvement on position 4 to half guards 6 side controls this is movement it is not laying on someone!

GSP v FITCH

Strikes from distance 77, 195 total strikes (humping) 118 punches while on the ground!

GSP v KOSCHECK

Strikes from distance 24,118 total strikes (humping) 94 punches while on the ground!

5 subs attempted this is movement on the ground in an attempt to submit your opponent!

 

The fact is that he is still champ and will be as long as he wants! Unlike some ex champs whose fans are the ones who are saying he is scared and want him to stand so bad, we his fans just want him to win in dominant fashion..............which he does! Also wrestling is now as big a part of MMA as BJJ was once and it’s not going anywhere so embrace the ground game! Watch it learn the difference and stop *****ing about it!

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This is a post from another thread' date=' just thought id repost it so i can settle this debate, i did not originally post this.

 

GSP?s fight?s whether you love them or loath them are without any shadow of doubt one sided! I don?t care what anyone says the last time GSP had a fight (other than his losses) that could have gone either way was his first fight against BJ.

His last few fights have been a master class from a guy who didn?t even do wrestling at school or college! And there is a reason behind this, you see standing the way he did leaves something to chance whereas taking people down means he controls the pace he controls his opponent he controls the outcome of the fight!

So why is it I heard all the ******** about the challenger must take the belt away from the champion! Apparently it only applies to the fighters you like, surely the onus is on the people fighting GSP to get better at wrestling and not be dominated on the ground not for GSP to give them all the chances in the world.

So next let?s address the people and you know who you are! Who say he does nothing on the floor.

As someone else pointed out there is a big difference between what GSP does and the so called lay and pray!

This is lay and pray

 

LAWAL v MOUSASI

11 takedowns but only 3 improvements on position= LNP

EVANS v BISPING

6 takedowns 4 improvements of position 38 total strikes landed (Bisping landed 52) =LNP

EVANS v SILVA 8 takedowns 4 improvements of position 3 strikes from the ground position and 21 total=LNP

 

While a lot of you may think FITCH falls into this category think again

 

FITCH v WILSON.. FITCH lands 129 strikes against 32 from WILSON 109 from the ground position

FITCH v LARSON.. FITCH lands 146 strikes against 19 from LARSON 118 from the ground position

FITCH v HIRONAKA.. FITCH lands 184 strikes against 17 from HIRONAKA 161 from the ground position

While he does not dramatically improve his position he is landing a lot of strikes= not LNP

 

 

GSP v HARDY

sub attempts by GSP 6 this is movement on the ground in an attempt to submit your opponent!

take downs 11 out of 11

improvement on position 26, including 11 to half guard 8 to side control 2 mounts

Strikes from distance 10, 174 strikes (humping) so he managed to throw 164 punches while on the floor well I don?t know about you guys you must do it different to me but when I **** the wife I never punch her!

GSP v ALVES

Strikes from distance 45, 149 total strikes (humping) 104 punches while on the ground!

Improvement on position 10 to half guard 1 mounts 2 to back this is movement it is not laying on someone!

GSP v PENN 2Strikes from distance 30, 297 strikes total (humping) wow a total of 267 strikes while grounded! No wonder he quit on his seat which in my opinion is worse than tapping to strikes!

Improvement on position 4 to half guards 6 side controls this is movement it is not laying on someone!

GSP v FITCH

Strikes from distance 77, 195 total strikes (humping) 118 punches while on the ground!

GSP v KOSCHECK

Strikes from distance 24,118 total strikes (humping) 94 punches while on the ground!

5 subs attempted this is movement on the ground in an attempt to submit your opponent!

 

The fact is that he is still champ and will be as long as he wants! Unlike some ex champs whose fans are the ones who are saying he is scared and want him to stand so bad, we his fans just want him to win in dominant fashion..............which he does! Also wrestling is now as big a part of MMA as BJJ was once and it?s not going anywhere so embrace the ground game! Watch it learn the difference and stop *****ing about it![/quote']

 

Dig it. You should give the origonal poster the credit he deserves. Whoever it is.

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About this time last year we had as champs:

 

BJ

GSP

Andersen

Machida

Lesnar

 

And the talk on the boards was how it was tough to see any of them losing in the near future.

 

Since then BJ has been outboxed by Edgar' date=' Andersen got GnP'ed by Sonnen for 4.5 rounds, Machida got owned by Shogun twice and Lesnar got pummelled to within a whisker of TKO by Carwin.

 

GSP has managed a couple of pretty overwhelming LnP victories against strikers but they were hardly highlight reel stuff.

 

Although it's nice to buy into the myth of champs as unbeatable supermen, the reality is that, as the level of MMA continues to climb, holding onto a belt for long will get harder and harder.[/quote']

 

You did notice that 3 out of the 5 are still champs right? Not to mention that BJ is getting his belt back in a few days, to make it 4/5...

 

I wouldn't start on the LnP BS, as it's a never ending story. All I will say is that not only did GSP not lose a fight, he did not lose a round in recent history.

 

Lesnar put Carwin to school with a submission, and Silva did a "Rocky" comeback from the pits of despair...

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Dig it. You should give the origonal poster the credit he deserves. Whoever it is.

 

Yes i should and the original poster was aethlefirth, his thread was titled GSP AND THE myth of LAY and PRAY.

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Yes i should and the original poster was aethlefirth' date=' his thread was titled GSP AND THE myth of LAY and PRAY.[/quote']

 

Nice. UP HIGH!!!

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GSP hasn't Lnp'd in a while if ever? I'm sry you must be watching the wrong fighter because the so called p4p best and welterweight champ got tko'd and then LnP'd cause he's scared of getting hit!

 

Kneeing someone in the body to the point that they're declared technically knocked out is lay and pray? GSP uses his superior wrestling and grappling to beat his opponents, I don't always find it necessarily the most exciting, but it's not lay and pray(what Fitch does is lay and pray).

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I hate using this term but "Hardcores" always knew A Silva sucks against wrestlers and Chael was more explosive than any wrestler he had ever thought before... however A Silva did pass the test. So he was actually better than I gave him credit for.

 

Lesnar invincible? The guy is fresh to MMA you didn't really believe the hype did you? Give the guy a break though he is doing pretty well don't let the haters bring you down to their level.

 

Machida was derailed but also he didn't hold the belt for as long as the others.

 

BJ has always been inconsistent and has had cardio problems in the past he also didn't get outboxxed at all there were more things going on in that fight than just boxing.

 

And GSP...well he is still invincible.

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BJ will get his belt back, GSP will Keep his belt, Silva will keep his belt since he is out till 2011. Brock will lose his belt to Cain.

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Since then BJ has been outboxed by Edgar' date=' Andersen got GnP'ed by Sonnen for 4.5 rounds, Machida got owned by Shogun twice and Lesnar got pummelled to within a whisker of TKO by Carwin.

 

GSP has managed a couple of pretty overwhelming LnP victories against strikers but they were hardly highlight reel stuff.

[/quote']

 

How was Anderson GnP'ed by Sonnen while GSP had some LnP victories.

Please, explain to me how Sonnen's performance wasn't LnP and GSP's was. Sonnen landed the most hits in UFC history and Silva didn't have a scratch. Look the fight. He even throws "wrist" punches. His arms are trapped and he basically hits with his wrists as the only thing to generate powers, multiple times. What was round 5 about? Man. At least GSP doesn't get gassed.

 

Oh and look Alves or BJ's face at the end. Compare it to Silva's. Now tell me Sonnen didn't LnP and GSP did.

 

You fail.

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About this time last year we had as champs:

 

BJ

GSP

Andersen

Machida

Lesnar

 

And the talk on the boards was how it was tough to see any of them losing in the near future.

 

Since then BJ has been outboxed by Edgar' date=' Andersen got GnP'ed by Sonnen for 4.5 rounds, Machida got owned by Shogun twice and Lesnar got pummelled to within a whisker of TKO by Carwin.

 

GSP has managed a couple of pretty overwhelming LnP victories against strikers but they were hardly highlight reel stuff.

 

Although it's nice to buy into the myth of champs as unbeatable supermen, the reality is that, as the level of MMA continues to climb, holding onto a belt for long will get harder and harder.[/quote']

 

Very true. Of course there will always be a new guy that will be ahead of the curve for a bit that will seem unbeatable... until he loses then we can start the cycle all over again. Right now GSP and Jose Aldo are the only two I see that really have a shot of not getting beat for a while. If it was two weeks ago I would have said Anderson Silva as well. Jon Jones seems like he has a skill set that combined with his natural gifts might put him ahead of the pack in the next two years. But the funny thing with mma right now is guys are popping up out of the wood work every year that are making the last batch seem inferior, and at younger and younger ages. SO many people are training now and so many great athletes are starting out in mma as opposed to switching to it as a fallback. The future is going to be crazy.

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How was Anderson GnP'ed by Sonnen while GSP had some LnP victories.

Please' date=' explain to me how Sonnen's performance wasn't LnP and GSP's was. Sonnen landed the most hits in UFC history and Silva didn't have a scratch. Look the fight. He even throws "wrist" punches. His arms are trapped and he basically hits with his wrists as the only thing to generate powers, multiple times. What was round 5 about? Man. At least GSP doesn't get gassed.

 

Oh and look Alves or BJ's face at the end. Compare it to Silva's. Now tell me Sonnen didn't LnP and GSP did.

 

You fail.[/quote']

 

People only criticize GSP because he is so dominant, and because there is nothing else to criticize they try and make it seem like his complete control of guys is a bad thing. He's so good people think he should just be able to finish everyone. But when you're fighting guys that smash the rest of the division it isn't that easy. And you're right when you see the guys he fights afterwards you can tell there wasn't any laying or praying going on unless it was by them. I'm sure they would agree. You don't ever hear the guys he fights criticize him, because they don't want to piss him off.

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IMO nobody is Unbeatable, everybody had his Nemesis

GSP wont to take the Hardy fight in the Stand up for fear, he said something like "fight or win safe" in an article, so he take hardy to the groud, "dominant way" is not to hug your oponent and try to hit him for 25 minutes, if you are go to take him down you should demolish like Jon whit brandon or whit the janitor, and yes, Shogun beat Machida twice, but the first one was very close, and the second, no comments.

 

PS: I dont hate GSP or any other fighter, is just my opinion, i dont want to the gsp lovers or any other attacking me -.- just saying guys.

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BJ was not outboxed by Edgar' date=' he was out headswiveled by Edgar. According to the stats, I believe Penn landed more shots total and more to the head. I think the only reason Edgar won was that everyone made a big deal about Penns amazing ability to not get taken down. And Edgar got like 2 of 9 takedown attempts or something and the judges were in awe for some reason. The list should be 4/5 fixed in a couple weeks.[/quote']

 

Anyone who believes in punch stat stats needs to rethink things. To the best of my knowledge they are based on a human being deciding when a punch is landed and what kind of punch it was. The whole methodology lends itself to error. Take it all with a grain of salt.

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