Shogun: Way overrated champion

[2below]

I really don't see why Shogun is all of a sudden considered to be top P4P and seemingly invincible in the eyes of his die hard fans. He is the champion of a division that, as of late, hasn't had a dominant champion. If he was racking up multiple title defenses, then sure, consider him unworldly and ungodly.

 

He beat Machida who only defended the belt once (against Shogun)

Before Machida was Rashad who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Rashad was Forrest who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Forrest was Rampage who only defended the belt once

And before that was Chuck Liddell, who is irrelevant now in the LHW division

 

Why are we considering him top P4P when he hasn't even defended the belt yet?

Was Rampage the best P4P when he took the belt from Chuck? No

Was Forrest the best P4P when he took the belt from Rampage? No

Was Rashad the best P4P when he took the belt from Forrest? No

Machida? Sure, but he was undefeated at the time and people were all over his balls, but then, of course, when he loses once he's off the P4P radar.

 

So please, answer me this, why the hell is Shogun getting so much praise for being the champion in a division that has seen more changes at champion recently than ever before?

[CarlLane]

I really don't see why Shogun is all of a sudden considered to be top P4P and seemingly invincible in the eyes of his die hard fans. He is the champion of a division that' date=' as of late, hasn't had a dominant champion. If he was racking up multiple title defenses, then sure, consider him unworldly and ungodly.

 

He beat Machida who only defended the belt once (against Shogun)

Before Machida was Rashad who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Rashad was Forrest who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Forrest was Rampage who only defended the belt once

And before that was Chuck Liddell, who is irrelevant now in the LHW division

 

Why are we considering him top P4P when he hasn't even defended the belt yet?

Was Rampage the best P4P when he took the belt from Chuck? No

Was Forrest the best P4P when he took the belt from Rampage? No

Was Rashad the best P4P when he took the belt from Forrest? No

Machida? Sure, but he was undefeated at the time and people were all over his balls, but then, of course, when he loses once he's off the P4P radar.

 

So please, answer me this, why the hell is Shogun getting so much praise for being the champion in a division that has seen more changes at champion recently than ever before?[/quote']

 

Shogun beat the unbeatable Machida and looked fantastic doing it on a bum knee that alone puts him at the top of 205 as far as p4p it's all bs if you ask me anyway

[Piercer138]

I really don't see why Shogun is all of a sudden considered to be top P4P and seemingly invincible in the eyes of his die hard fans. He is the champion of a division that' date=' as of late, hasn't had a dominant champion. If he was racking up multiple title defenses, then sure, consider him unworldly and ungodly.

 

He beat Machida who only defended the belt once (against Shogun)

Before Machida was Rashad who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Rashad was Forrest who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Forrest was Rampage who only defended the belt once

And before that was Chuck Liddell, who is irrelevant now in the LHW division

 

Why are we considering him top P4P when he hasn't even defended the belt yet?

Was Rampage the best P4P when he took the belt from Chuck? No

Was Forrest the best P4P when he took the belt from Rampage? No

Was Rashad the best P4P when he took the belt from Forrest? No

Machida? Sure, but he was undefeated at the time and people were all over his balls, but then, of course, when he loses once he's off the P4P radar.

 

So please, answer me this, why the hell is Shogun getting so much praise for being the champion in a division that has seen more changes at champion recently than ever before?[/quote']

!! AMEN !!

 

I was NEVER impressed by shogun, PERIOD!

 

I hated shogun in pride and I hate him now...

 

:mad:

[CarlLane]

!! AMEN !!

 

I was NEVER impressed by shogun' date=' PERIOD!

 

I hated shogun in pride and I hate him now...[/b']

 

:mad:

 

i will make up for your hatred with my <3 for him

[Piercer138]

i will make up for your hatred with my <3 for him

:eek:

 

"teeheeheeheehee"

 

[ToiletSeat]

I find it funny when Shoguns fans try to discredit other fighters and always have an excuse for any loss or bad performance, but if any other fighter has a reason why they couldn't perform, its "BS and their lieing!!"

[2below]

I find it funny when Shoguns fans try to discredit other fighters and always have an excuse for any loss or bad performance' date=' but if any other fighter has a reason why they couldn't perform, its "BS and their lieing!!"[/quote']

 

It's the Shogun Double Standard effect. Shogun die-hards unknowingly possess this trait, but it consumes their soul in its entirety.

[mynameis]

He is not overrated nor unbeatable.

[Furiousmat]

I really don't see why Shogun is all of a sudden considered to be top P4P and seemingly invincible in the eyes of his die hard fans. He is the champion of a division that' date=' as of late, hasn't had a dominant champion. If he was racking up multiple title defenses, then sure, consider him unworldly and ungodly.

 

He beat Machida who only defended the belt once (against Shogun)

Before Machida was Rashad who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Rashad was Forrest who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Forrest was Rampage who only defended the belt once

And before that was Chuck Liddell, who is irrelevant now in the LHW division

 

Why are we considering him top P4P when he hasn't even defended the belt yet?

Was Rampage the best P4P when he took the belt from Chuck? No

Was Forrest the best P4P when he took the belt from Rampage? No

Was Rashad the best P4P when he took the belt from Forrest? No

Machida? Sure, but he was undefeated at the time and people were all over his balls, but then, of course, when he loses once he's off the P4P radar.

 

So please, answer me this, why the hell is Shogun getting so much praise for being the champion in a division that has seen more changes at champion recently than ever before?[/quote']

 

cuz he's a PRIDE star and the fans of old will never let go their nuthugging of these guys from the old league. They can't let go the idea that the competition is better now than before. And so everytime a big name from pride does anything they're all over his balls.

 

Truth is, as you pointed it out, Shogun has achieved 1 thing in the UFC, and it's defeat Machida. Before he did that he actually didn't do ANYTHING that actually should even have given him a title shot. He hasn't even defended his title once.... so I'm pretty damn far from starting to hug his nuts. He's a great experienced fighter I know it, but P4P? not yet.

[FraleyA]

Shogun beat Machida. A man that nobody could figure out. A man that never lost a round in his MMA career. He not only beat him twice,the second fight he KO'd Machida pretty quick.

[2below]

cuz he's a PRIDE star and the fans of old will never let go their nuthugging of these guys from the old league. They can't let go the idea that the competition is better now than before. And so everytime a big name from pride does anything they're all over his balls.

 

Truth is' date=' as you pointed it out, Shogun has achieved 1 thing in the UFC, and it's defeat Machida. Before he did that he actually didn't do ANYTHING that actually should even have given him a title shot. He hasn't even defended his title once.... so I'm pretty damn far from starting to hug his nuts. He's a great experienced fighter I know it, but P4P? not yet.[/quote']

 

i 100% agree with everything you said.

 

how does beating Chuck Liddell and Mark Coleman get you a title shot? and he's 1-1 with Machida on the score cards, so why is he so far above the rest of the division? on any given night any of the top 5, even top 7 LHW's could beat Shogun, IMO.

[MAMBA24ILL]

Not a big Shogun fan but i don't think he's overrated. The guys had lots of wars in his pride days & it remains to be seen if he can hold on to the belt & defend it.

[2below]

Shogun beat Machida. A man that nobody could figure out. A man that never lost a round in his MMA career. He not only beat him twice' date='the second fight he KO'd Machida pretty quick.[/quote']

 

dude get over the "wahhhh shogun won the first fight, wah wah wahh"

 

According to actuality and reality, Shogun and Machida are 1-1 against each other.

[CarlLane]

Shogun beat Machida. A man that nobody could figure out. A man that never lost a round in his MMA career. He not only beat him twice' date='the second fight he KO'd Machida pretty quick.[/quote']

 

^this and it's the same for Sonnen vs. Silva, Anderson was on a tear and now...he was figured out...i'm probably one of the bigger Shogun fans here, i bought the complete PRIDE collection after Shogun fought Machida the first time, that was the fight that made me a fan of his, i liked him in the Liddell and Coleman fights but admit i didn't know very much about him he WILL lose but it will be to Jon Jones and nobody else, and that might not even be in their first fight imo

[2below]

Not a big Shogun fan but i don't think he's overrated. The guys had lots of wars in his pride days & it remains to be seen if he can hold on to the belt & defend it.

 

Exactly. He is overrated because he hasn't even defended his belt yet the praise surrounding him far exceeds his output in the octagon. Once again, Forrest Griffin won the belt, so why wasn't he the best fighter ever when he had the belt? He beat the man who beat Chuck Liddell, the perennial champ.. so shouldn't he have been the best ever according to this logic? No, he was still forrest griffin, just like Shogun is Shogun until he defends his belt

[ToiletSeat]

What some Shogun fans are blind to see is that he might not even defend his title once, i mean there is a good chance that he will but Rashad also has a good chance, Shogun has some of the worst takedown defence and rashad has great takedowns which means that there is a big possibility that rashad could get a UD. Although rashads chin is suspect he still has only been KOed once and seen as two of the hardest hitters in the LHW division couldn't KO him it will be quite hard for shogun to aswell.

[2below]

^this and it's the same for Sonnen vs. Silva' date=' Anderson was on a tear and now...he was figured out...i'm probably one of the bigger Shogun fans here, i bought the complete PRIDE collection after Shogun fought Machida the first time, that was the fight that made me a fan of his, i liked him in the Liddell and Coleman fights but admit i didn't know very much about him he WILL lose but it will be to Jon Jones and nobody else, and that might not even be in their first fight imo[/quote']

 

Shogun will lose to Rashad. He's not going to be able to handle Rashad's wrestling... especially with his grandma knees.

[claudiorebelo]

i 100% agree with everything you said.

 

how does beating Chuck Liddell and Mark Coleman get you a title shot? and he's 1-1 with Machida on the score cards' date=' so why is he so far above the rest of the division? on any given night any of the top 5, even top 7 LHW's could beat Shogun, IMO.[/quote']

 

 

Learn how to count, Shogun is 2-0 with Machida.

 

If the judges ruled that Herring had won against Lesnar how would you count that?

 

Herring 1 - Lesnar 0?????

[2below]

What some Shogun fans are blind to see is that he might not even defend his title once' date=' i mean there is a good chance that he will but Rashad also has a good chance, Shogun has some of the worst takedown defence and rashad has great takedowns which means that there is a big possibility that rashad could get a UD. Although rashads chin is suspect he still has only been KOed once and seen as two of the hardest hitters in the LHW division couldn't KO him it will be quite hard for shogun to aswell.[/quote']

 

i completely agree. Shogun has horrible knees + horrible takedown defense. Not a very good formula to fight an extremely talented, powerful wrestler. Rashad is going to hold him against the cage and on the mat and GnP shogun into verbal submission... not really but he will GnP him into a TKO.

[2below]

Learn how to count' date=' Shogun is 2-0 with Machida.

 

If the judges ruled that Herring had won against Lesnar how would you count that?

 

Herring 1 - Lesnar 0?????[/quote']

 

Uh, yeah because that's what it goes down as in the books. Why should Shogun get the belt for going 5 rounds with Machida and not beating him convincingly? Your logic is flawed, buddy. So, please, YOU learn how to count. 1-1.

[claudiorebelo]

What some Shogun fans are blind to see is that he might not even defend his title once' date=' i mean there is a good chance that he will but Rashad also has a good chance, Shogun has some of the worst takedown defence and rashad has great takedowns which means that there is a big possibility that rashad could get a UD. Although rashads chin is suspect he still has only been KOed once and seen as two of the hardest hitters in the LHW division couldn't KO him it will be quite hard for shogun to aswell.[/quote']

 

even with busted knees Shogun is a threat to anyone.

He has excellent sweeps, he can always scramble back up.

 

Rashad was very close in being finished by Thiago Silva and Rampage.

When Shogun smells blood he goes for the finish.

I just hope he recovers at least @ 70% (that's all he needs) to KO Rashad and shut all the haters up!

[2below]

c'mon where's the Shogun Defense Force??!?!

[iNOOB]

Learn how to count' date=' Shogun is 2-0 with Machida.

 

If the judges ruled that Herring had won against Lesnar how would you count that?

 

Herring 1 - Lesnar 0?????[/quote']

 

Nope. I checked wikipedia, Machida beat Shogun in October at UFC 104 with a 5 round Unanimous Decision. Machida-1 Shogun-1

[2below]

even with busted knees Shogun is a threat to anyone.

He has excellent sweeps' date=' he can always scramble back up.

 

Rashad was very close in being finished by Thiago Silva and Rampage.

When Shogun smells blood he goes for the finish.

I just hope he recovers at least @ 70% (that's all he needs) to KO Rashad and shut all the haters up![/quote']

 

hahaha a 70% Shogun will KO Rashad? Yeah, right. his knee is going to blow out from the first takedown if he comes in at 70%

[iNOOB]

hahaha a 70% Shogun will KO Rashad? Yeah' date=' right. his knee is going to blow out from the first takedown.[/quote']

 

This is likely.

[FroZeN]

Rashad will go for a single leg takedown. Then the rest of the fight he will only be able to perform single leg takedowns, because after the first Shogun's leg is going to snap off from the knee down.

[CarlLane]

hahaha a 70% Shogun will KO Rashad? Yeah' date=' right. his knee is going to blow out from the first takedown if he comes in at 70%[/quote']

 

Rashad will gas in the 3rd and that's when the KO will happen, if not way sooner

[CarlLane]

c'mon where's the Shogun Defense Force??!?!

 

i've already said it top 205er but will have to defend the title to be in the p4p category

[FroZeN]

Rashad will gas in the 3rd and that's when the KO will happen' date=' if not way sooner[/quote']

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but when have you ever seen Rashad gas? Seeing everything from behind a mans sack can be bad for you dude.

[2below]

Rashad will gas in the 3rd and that's when the KO will happen' date=' if not way sooner[/quote']

 

How can Shogun KO Rashad when Rashad's body is completely engulfing him.

[cyberspider13]

I really don't see why Shogun is all of a sudden considered to be top P4P and seemingly invincible in the eyes of his die hard fans. He is the champion of a division that' date=' as of late, hasn't had a dominant champion. If he was racking up multiple title defenses, then sure, consider him unworldly and ungodly.

 

He beat Machida who only defended the belt once (against Shogun)

Before Machida was Rashad who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Rashad was Forrest who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Forrest was Rampage who only defended the belt once

And before that was Chuck Liddell, who is irrelevant now in the LHW division

 

Why are we considering him top P4P when he hasn't even defended the belt yet?

Was Rampage the best P4P when he took the belt from Chuck? No

Was Forrest the best P4P when he took the belt from Rampage? No

Was Rashad the best P4P when he took the belt from Forrest? No

Machida? Sure, but he was undefeated at the time and people were all over his balls, but then, of course, when he loses once he's off the P4P radar.

 

So please, answer me this, why the hell is Shogun getting so much praise for being the champion in a division that has seen more changes at champion recently than ever before?[/quote']

 

please don't critisize my for my avatar,im a shogun fan but i can see clearly the facts..u have a point but if a guy wins a pride tournament like a walk in the park and if the same guy wins twice an unbeatble machida then this guy is no joke..

[CarlLane]

Please correct me if I'm wrong' date=' but when have you ever seen Rashad gas? Seeing everything from behind a mans sack can be bad for you dude.[/quote']

 

hahahaha Rashad gassed in the Rampage fight in the 3rd, almost lost, Rashad gassed in the 3rd against Thiago, almost lost...dude has issues, he can beat Shogun if he can keep him down for 5 rounds, remember each round starts standing

[CarlLane]

How can Shogun KO Rashad when Rashad's body is completely engulfing him.

 

Rashad will tire like he has his last 2 fights in the 3rd, we've seen Shogun go 5rds i don't believe Rashad can even go 4

[cruz2990]

Shogun will lose to Rashad. He's not going to be able to handle Rashad's wrestling... especially with his grandma knees.

 

I agree with this I dont see him defending his title, he is way overrated!

[2below]

I agree with this I dont see him defending his title' date=' he is way overrated![/quote']

 

hell yeah!

 

I just don't see how it can happen. Rashad's takedowns are beastly and Shogun's knees are frail and his TD defense has never been great. It's a recipe for a Shogun loss. He could beat Machida because Machida was standing with him. When Rashad is on top of him controlling the fight let's see Shogun try to outstrike him

[mightycracker]

I really don't see why Shogun is all of a sudden considered to be top P4P and seemingly invincible in the eyes of his die hard fans. He is the champion of a division that' date=' as of late, hasn't had a dominant champion. If he was racking up multiple title defenses, then sure, consider him unworldly and ungodly.

 

He beat Machida who only defended the belt once (against Shogun)

Before Machida was Rashad who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Rashad was Forrest who couldn't defend the belt once

Before Forrest was Rampage who only defended the belt once

And before that was Chuck Liddell, who is irrelevant now in the LHW division

 

Why are we considering him top P4P when he hasn't even defended the belt yet?

Was Rampage the best P4P when he took the belt from Chuck? No

Was Forrest the best P4P when he took the belt from Rampage? No

Was Rashad the best P4P when he took the belt from Forrest? No

Machida? Sure, but he was undefeated at the time and people were all over his balls, but then, of course, when he loses once he's off the P4P radar.

 

So please, answer me this, why the hell is Shogun getting so much praise for being the champion in a division that has seen more changes at champion recently than ever before?[/quote']

 

i agree 100% only because there were so many people hangin from machidas balls ! his first title defense he will lose (not bashin shogun ).

[2below]

i agree 100% only because there were so many people hangin from machidas balls ! his first title defense he will lose (not bashin shogun ).

 

I know I hate how people say Shogun figured out Machida. Machida was figured out a while ago. He is a counter-striker. How do you beat a counter striker? be aggressive and force action upon them--take them out of their comfort zone. Don't share jabs for rounds and rounds.

[BJBJJ]

It's the Shogun Double Standard effect. Shogun die-hards unknowingly possess this trait' date=' but it consumes their soul in its entirety.[/quote']

 

shogun and lesnar are both balls deep in mindless drone fanboys

 

like hornets these fanboys will swarm anything that attacks their queen.

 

it takes a fearless giant bear to break open their hive and feast on the sweet clover honey inside.

[ToiletSeat]

shogun and lesnar are both balls deep in mindless drone fanboys

 

like hornets these fanboys will swarm anything that attacks their queen.

 

it takes a fearless giant bear to break open their hive and feast on the sweet clover honey inside.

 

No honorable mention for the GSP fans??

[MysticKJ]

Please correct me if I'm wrong' date=' but when have you ever seen Rashad gas? Seeing everything from behind a mans sack can be bad for you dude.[/quote']

 

Rashad said he gassed in the T. Silva fight...once he switched his game to wrestling from striking he found out he didn't have the cardio to wrestle 15 minutes that why he focused on his cardio after that fight...

[BJBJJ]

No honorable mention for the GSP fans??

 

GSP/BJ fans end to just fight amongst themselves.

[2below]

shogun and lesnar are both balls deep in mindless drone fanboys

 

like hornets these fanboys will swarm anything that attacks their queen.

 

it takes a fearless giant bear to break open their hive and feast on the sweet clover honey inside.

 

UFC 126: Shogun and Brock Fans vs. Pack of Bears--the Stealing of the Sweet Clover Honey

[2below]

No honorable mention for the GSP fans??

 

GSP fans don't seem to be as bad anymore. But maybe that's just because Shogun fans have become so ridiculous it shields the man love for GSP

[bosnianbjj]

it all will be irelevant when TITO ORTIZ gets his belt back no more mister nice guy blee dat i ain plain witchu

[ToiletSeat]

it all will be irelevant when TITO ORTIZ gets his belt back no more mister nice guy blee dat i ain plain witchu

 

Can i just ask, why do you talk about ortiz then use James Toneys retarded yet hilarious sayings?

[BruceLeePhenom]

I agree 100% about this thread. Shogun is WAY overrated.If Machida had a 3rd fight with this clown, he will win.

[cyberspider13]

u probably thinging that im hanging from shoguns ball..i just said my opinion guys..com'on..u have to admit that he is an exiting fighter

[BJBJJ]

UFC 126: Shogun and Brock Fans vs. Pack of Bears--the Stealing of the Sweet Clover Honey

 

unless a tranq gun is involved I ALWAYS bet on the ferocious bear.

[acdoubleu]

It's about history for some, and the rest are just riding the bandwagon. Shogun has kind of been the heir apparent to the LHW throne ever since Chuck and Wandy were dominating their promotions. Shogun has been seen as the next big thing for so long, that I think him winning the title convincingly has been enough to prove to people he's back. I personally was one of the people waving the shogun banner when he first came to the UFC. I didnt know about his knees at the time though. Even so the guy has showed such a high level of natural ability thoughout his career that it's hard not to think that if he's healthy he could be the guy to make at least a few successful defenses.

[Theiceman101]

normally i dont even bother logging in to talk on this forum as it is so full of idiots but this time i cannot stand by silently. call me a shogun **** if you want, but dont accuse me of being some mindless fan who has jumped on a bandwagon. i have loved shogun since his 2005 grand prix run, and if you knew anything about mma you'd know that his run that year alone was what made him so well known and thats the only reason why he has only had to have minimal achievements in the ufc to become so well known, so in other words he was given the benefit of the doubt when he received a title shot i know he didnt deserve it right away. however he proved everyone wrong and yes machida technically won that fight but it is a moot point when you look at the second fight so why even bother arguing the second fight. the thing i dont understand is how when machida won it was the machida era and now that shogun knocked him out shogun gets no love and people are trying to say he is overrated. if anything i think he is underrated for how good he is and ****s like the people on this forum dont give him the respect he deserves. as far as fans trying to discredit his losses this is true as i admit to being guilty of doing that myself however i feel most of the rationalizations are fair, the important thing however is that shogun himself never makes excuses and always gives respect to the men who beat him. it was hard as a shogun fan to sit there and stay by his side when he came to the ufc because everyone wrote him off as a has been and said he was done even though he was only 26-27 still not even in his prime. then he fought machida the first time and going into that fight everyone talked about how shogun was going to get ktfo'ed but he won in my opinion, and if you say well he didnt really win i suppose your technically right but that is why there was a rematch. I must say i thought for sure peoples attitudes would be different going into the second machida fight but everyone still had there reasons why machida would win and look what happened shogun knocked him the **** out. so really anyone here who thinks suga rashad evans is going to destroy him then feel free to believe so but how many times will shogun have to prove you wrong until you finally respect him even if you refuse to admire him. now dont get me wrong i have no delusions of shogun being undefeated for 5 years in the lhw division cause it is way too stacked, but i still think he will have the best run we've seen since chuck. as for p4p i think based on his accomplishments before and what he did to machida who was #4 or 5 i believe, that is definitly grounds for being in the p4p top 10 if not shogun who else would you even argue is more deserving?