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BJ Penn: Takedowns And Positions Are Jokes


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BJ Penn: Takedowns And Positions Are Jokes | Steve Rattlesnake

 

?My problem with the scoring system is that you can go out and win the first round by 50 points and lose the second round by two points on a takedown or something and it?s an even fight going to the third round, that?s a joke. On another note, what good does a takedown do if I take down Demian Maia? How many points do I get if I mount on James Toney? It?s just ridiculous. I don?t think positions should be any points. The only things that should count as points are power punches and legitimate submission attempts. Add them up at the end of the fight and whoever has the most points or did the most damage wins. That?s how it should be. That 10-9 system doesn?t work.?

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He makes a point.

If they improved the scoring system someone like... Jon Fitch would have to continuously pound in order to gain points. There's WAY too much stock in TD's in MMA, so that even being on top is seen as controlling.

 

We can take the Mousasi/Lawal fight for example.

Lawal controlled Mousasi by taking him down constantly, but Mousasi was extremely active landing over 300 shots to Lawal's less than 50. Activity should be rewarded, willingness to finish. Nothing else.

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He makes a point.

If they improved the scoring system someone like... Jon Fitch would have to continuously pound in order to gain points. There's WAY too much stock in TD's in MMA' date=' so that even being on top is seen as controlling.

 

We can take the Mousasi/Lawal fight for example.

Lawal controlled Mousasi by taking him down constantly, but Mousasi was extremely active landing over 300 shots to Lawal's less than 50. Activity should be rewarded, willingness to finish. Nothing else.[/quote']

 

+1

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he makes a point.

If they improved the scoring system someone like... Jon fitch would have to continuously pound in order to gain points. There's way too much stock in td's in mma' date=' so that even being on top is seen as controlling.

 

We can take the mousasi/lawal fight for example.

Lawal controlled mousasi by taking him down constantly, but mousasi was extremely active landing over 300 shots to lawal's less than 50. Activity should be rewarded, willingness to finish. Nothing else.[/quote']

 

+666

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BJ Penn: Takedowns And Positions Are Jokes | Steve Rattlesnake

 

?My problem with the scoring system is that you can go out and win the first round by 50 points and lose the second round by two points on a takedown or something and it?s an even fight going to the third round' date=' that?s a joke. On another note, what good does a takedown do if I take down Demian Maia? How many points do I get if I mount on James Toney? It?s just ridiculous. I don?t think positions should be any points. The only things that should count as points are power punches and legitimate submission attempts. Add them up at the end of the fight and whoever has the most points or did the most damage wins. That?s how it should be. That 10-9 system doesn?t work.?[/quote']

 

I completely agree. I don't know what the solution is but the 10 point must system doesn't work. I have nothing against wrestlers, in fact I think it is the best base for a fighter to build on, but getting rid of the 10-9 system would help eliminate so many boring decisions that come down to who got more takedowns. I really think mma deserves it's own scoring system. If anything judge it the way they used to do in pride and score based on the entire fight. Whoever did the most damage should win the fight, not the guy who was on top more.

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He makes a point.

If they improved the scoring system someone like... Jon Fitch would have to continuously pound in order to gain points. There's WAY too much stock in TD's in MMA' date=' so that even being on top is seen as controlling.

 

We can take the Mousasi/Lawal fight for example.

Lawal controlled Mousasi by taking him down constantly, but Mousasi was extremely active landing over 300 shots to Lawal's less than 50. Activity should be rewarded, willingness to finish. Nothing else.[/quote']

 

No matter what kind of scoring system was integrated, Jon Fitch would still win majority of his fights. He controls his opponents like no other.

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So your saying that if i shoot a beautiful takedown on you and pass into side control than mount you, that should be worth no points?

 

I mean i know its a fight but cmon man.... Control and positioning wins fights. If you are on your back and not working subs than you are worthless. Much like Silva was until the end of 5th where he caught Sonnen. Sonnen was totally dominating that fight and IS the best MW in the world. Hes just not the champ. YET.

 

BJ Penn is a ****** and i hope he gets his **** kicked come Saturday, even though i believe he will win.

 

GO SONNEN!

GO GSP!

GO VELASQUEZ!

GO SANCHEZ!

GO GUIDA!

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Seriously to all guys who think take down and BJJ dominant position are boring then they should watch a other sport .

 

This is MMA u dont like it then DONT WATCH IT .

 

BJ talking about going to boxing then GO FOR IT , i will still watch him in boxing but the problem is that we talk about MMA .

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Seriously to all guys who think take down and BJJ dominant position are boring then they should watch a other sport .

 

This is MMA u dont like it then DONT WATCH IT .

 

BJ talking about going to boxing then GO FOR IT ' date=' i will still watch him in boxing but the problem is that we talk about MMA .[/[/b']QUOTE]

 

wasnt GSP talking about trying out for the Olympics about a year ago?... then he should go do it, but this is mma and as such he should do more than "dominate" ground positions.

 

- notice the emphasis on "dominate"

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Seriously to all guys who think take down and BJJ dominant position are boring then they should watch a other sport .

 

This is MMA u dont like it then DONT WATCH IT .

 

BJ talking about going to boxing then GO FOR IT ' date=' i will still watch him in boxing but the problem is that we talk about MMA .[/[/b']QUOTE]

 

wasnt GSP talking about trying out for the Olympics about a year ago?... then he should go do it, but this is mma and as such he should do more than "dominate" ground positions.

 

- notice the emphasis on "dominate"

 

Why u bring GSP and the Olympics in this , GSP didnt complain about MMA rulz , he adapt to it .

 

We was talking about BJ who complain about MMA rulz , he should just stop do it if he dont like the Rulz . Common did u realy beleive they should remove point for take down , improving position .

 

U wanna see stand up ? Only stand up ? Then u watching the wrong sport , u have to get some basic TD defence if u wanna strike and ONLY strike in a MMA fight .

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Why u bring GSP and the Olympics in this ' date=' GSP didnt complain about MMA rulz , he adapt to it .

 

We was talking about BJ who complain about MMA rulz , he should just stop do it if he dont like the Rulz . Common did u realy beleive they should remove point for take down , improving position .

 

U wanna see stand up ? Only stand up ? Then u watching the wrong sport , u have to get some basic TD defence if u wanna strike and ONLY strike in a MMA fight .[/quote']

 

Getting a TD? yes. advancing in position? yes. grinding out the victory likes its 3rd quater and your up by 3 touchdowns? **** no.

 

And the mma rules are far from perfect, because stuffing a TD only counts for like 1/5 of actually getting one, or are you going to try and say the Edgar getting 10+ TDs stuffed and finally getting 1, ONE!, in round 5 tipped the scales in his favor towards victory?

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Getting a TD? yes. advancing in position? yes. grinding out the victory likes its 3rd quater and your up by 3 touchdowns? **** no.

 

And the mma rules are far from perfect' date=' because stuffing a TD only counts for like 1/5 of actually getting one, or are you going to try and say the Edgar getting 10+ TDs stuffed and finally getting 1, ONE!, in round 5 tipped the scales in his favor towards victory?[/quote']

 

Frankie kicked Bj's ****, NO EXCUSES!

 

Frankie is also going to whoop his **** again!

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Why u bring GSP and the Olympics in this ' date=' GSP didnt complain about MMA rulz , he adapt to it .

 

We was talking about BJ who complain about MMA rulz , he should just stop do it if he dont like the Rulz . Common did u realy beleive they should remove point for take down , improving position .

 

U wanna see stand up ? Only stand up ? Then u watching the wrong sport , u have to get some basic TD defence if u wanna strike and ONLY strike in a MMA fight .[/quote']

 

Go watch college wrestling

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He makes a point.

If they improved the scoring system someone like... Jon Fitch would have to continuously pound in order to gain points. There's WAY too much stock in TD's in MMA' date=' so that even being on top is seen as controlling.

 

We can take the Mousasi/Lawal fight for example.

Lawal controlled Mousasi by taking him down constantly, but Mousasi was extremely active landing over 300 shots to Lawal's less than 50. Activity should be rewarded, willingness to finish. Nothing else.[/quote']

 

this...

 

this would eliminate LnP...also, there needs to be a distinction between a strong 10-9 round and a close 10-9 round...because judges don't hand out 10-8 enough to distinguish dominant rounds...

 

i've seen too many rounds where the guys just trade jabs and one guy scores a TD with 45 secs left and just lets the guy back up (just to get points)...TDs for the sake of TDs are useless unless you utilize the position gained...Chuck did that against Wandy...close fight, but Chuck took him down towards the end (for points) then just let Wandy back up...

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Getting a TD? yes. advancing in position? yes. grinding out the victory likes its 3rd quater and your up by 3 touchdowns? **** no.

 

And the mma rules are far from perfect' date=' because stuffing a TD only counts for like 1/5 of actually getting one, or are you going to try and say the [b']Edgar getting 10+ TDs stuffed and finally getting 1, ONE!, in round 5 tipped the scales in his favor towards victory[/b]?

 

in general i agree with this...if you stuff 6 of 8 TD attempts, you won the grappling battle imo...

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BJ Penn: Takedowns And Positions Are Jokes | Steve Rattlesnake

 

?My problem with the scoring system is that you can go out and win the first round by 50 points and lose the second round by two points on a takedown or something and it?s an even fight going to the third round' date=' that?s a joke. On another note, what good does a takedown do if I take down Demian Maia? How many points do I get if I mount on James Toney? It?s just ridiculous. I don?t think positions should be any points. The only things that should count as points are power punches and legitimate submission attempts. Add them up at the end of the fight and whoever has the most points or did the most damage wins. That?s how it should be. That 10-9 system doesn?t work.?[/quote']

 

Got to LOVE BJ :-)

 

Can't deal with them darn wrestlers - let's change the rules.

 

HEY BJ! That is MMA. You know, MIXED martial arts.

 

It's this concept, where you can, you know, use MIXED martial arts to win a fight. You should try it...

 

Instead of whining, practice.

 

Actually, come to think about it, whining could be another form of martial art... from BJ it sounds like an art...

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Got to LOVE BJ :-)

 

Can't deal with them darn wrestlers - let's change the rules.

 

HEY BJ! That is MMA. You know' date=' [b']MIXED[/b] martial arts.

 

It's this concept, where you can, you know, use MIXED martial arts to win a fight. You should try it...

 

Instead of whining, practice.

 

Actually, come to think about it, whining could be another form of martial art... from BJ it sounds like an art...

 

he honestly does have a point though, doing damage in a fight is what's important.

 

while i don't think takedowns should recieve no points at all, because they should, i do believe they are given too much credit. In the Penn/Edgar fight, Edgar got i believe 1, maybe 2 very brief takedowns out of about 13 attempts.

 

Edgars 1 - 2 takedowns successful.

Penn 11 - 12 takedowns stuffed.

 

in my mind, penn won that grappling match, in the judges, i wouldn't be surprised if they gave the nod to frankie.

 

so yes, control should win you points, but damage should win you more.

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It's not so much the take down that gets the points, it's the control that gets the points. When you take someone down and control their posture and rain down ground and pound whether damaging or not you have more control of the fight than the other guy.

 

For example if a striker gets a really good head kick on a guy and cuts him wide open in round 2 but for the rest of the fight he is dominated on the ground and fully controlled but doesn't even bleed who should get the win. More damage was done to the wrestler but by far the control went to the wrestler. You can't go by damage alone you have to look at each round as it's own fight. By have 3 rounds you basically say if these guys fought 3 times who would win the majority of the time.

 

The only flaw I see with the 10 point system is that it uses 10 points. When do you ever see more than a 2 point difference in a round? Never. So why use 10 points?

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BJ Penn: Takedowns And Positions Are Jokes | Steve Rattlesnake

 

?My problem with the scoring system is that you can go out and win the first round by 50 points and lose the second round by two points on a takedown or something and it?s an even fight going to the third round' date=' that?s a joke. On another note, what good does a takedown do if I take down Demian Maia? How many points do I get if I mount on James Toney? It?s just ridiculous. I don?t think positions should be any points. The only things that should count as points are power punches and legitimate submission attempts. Add them up at the end of the fight and whoever has the most points or did the most damage wins. That?s how it should be. That 10-9 system doesn?t work.?[/quote']

 

for once I have to agree with BJ. Too much importance is given to positionning and control even when the fighter can't manage to do anything useful with his acquired positions. As I said before, positionning should be a mean, not an end. It should serve the fighter into placing him into an advantageous position that makes him able to deal more damage than his opponent. If a fighter gets full mount but can't deal good damage from there, what good is it?

 

That and also the 10-9 system obviously doesn't work for a 3 round fight.. The system doesn't allow enough flexibility to judge the sport in all its complexity. Very rarely, judges will score a round 10-8, especially in a 3 round fight. So for example, in the condit vs macdonald's fight, if the fight hadn't been stopped, Condit would probly have lost because one judge woulda scored it a draw and the 2 others woulda made it 29-28 for macdonald. Even if in the end, Condit definitly dealed 10X more damage in the 3rd round than macdonald did in the first 2, even though he won these 2 first round.

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