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Penn vs. Fitch


brsenk

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I read interesting comments on mmajunkie stating Penn wants more fights even if its not at light weight. Someone mentioned a welter weight matchup between penn and fitch (some claim it would validate the number 2 WW after Kos-GSP fight).

 

Just curious to know you alls comments/predictions (and if Joe Silva reading...a potential matchup ;-).

 

 

 

 

 

(http://mmajunkie.com/news/20451/if-victorious-at-ufc-118-refocused-b-j-penn-wants-all-challengers-busier-schedule.mma)

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yeah' date=' and randy couture was the HW champion. what's your point?

 

you do remember that the sport evolved and evolves, right?[/quote']

Randy can still compete at HW, and BJ can still compete at WW.

Just because they probably wouldn't win the title at those weight classes, it's hard to deny the fact that they could STILL be considered in the top 10, if not 5 in those weight classes. Physical disadvantages aside, it's ludicrous to suggest that they can't "compete" simple because they wouldn't beat the champion.

 

If we said that, then the whole WW class "can't compete at WW" because none of them can beat St. Pierre.

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I read interesting comments on mmajunkie stating Penn wants more fights even if its not at light weight. Someone mentioned a welter weight matchup between penn and fitch (some claim it would validate the number 2 WW after Kos-GSP fight).

 

Just curious to know you alls comments/predictions (and if Joe Silva reading...a potential matchup ;-).

 

 

 

 

 

(http://mmajunkie.com/news/20451/if-victorious-at-ufc-118-refocused-b-j-penn-wants-all-challengers-busier-schedule.mma)

 

 

 

Penns not strong enough to deal with the wrestling. He'd get ground out.

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Randy can still compete at HW' date=' and BJ can still compete at WW.

Just because they probably wouldn't win the title at those weight classes, it's hard to deny the fact that they could STILL be considered in the top 10, if not 5 in those weight classes. Physical disadvantages aside, it's ludicrous to suggest that they can't "compete" simple because they wouldn't beat the champion.

 

If we said that, then the whole WW class "can't compete at WW" because none of them can beat St. Pierre.[/quote']

 

"probably wouldn't win the title at those weight classes" ???? LOL. try definitely.

 

penn could beat a lot of WW's. jon fitch is not one of them. neither is GSP. or jake shields. or most guys at the top.

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"probably wouldn't win the title at those weight classes" ???? LOL. try definitely.

 

penn could beat a lot of WW's. jon fitch is not one of them. neither is GSP. or jake shields. or most guys at the top.

Who are the top guys at WW?

There's Dan Hardy - I'd take BJ.

Then there's Josh Koscheck - what does he have new to offer? BJ still is a plausible win.

Then Alves - A HUGE WW with power, but BJ's BJJ is always an X-factor. Another plausible win.

And you mentioned Shields? The wrestler/submission grappler?

BJ would massacre him in the stand-up AND has better BJJ than him.

Another plausible win.

 

So that leaves Fitch and GSP.

We know he probably wouldn't be GSP because he's just so well-rounded, but again BJ's BJJ would come into play against Fitch majorly. ANOTHER plausible win.

So, he wouldn't beat most of the top guys? I respectfully disagree.

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Who are the top guys at WW?

There's Dan Hardy - I'd take BJ.

Then there's Josh Koscheck - what does he have new to offer? BJ still is a plausible win.

Then Alves - A HUGE WW with power' date=' but BJ's BJJ is always an X-factor. Another plausible win.

And you mentioned Shields? The wrestler/submission grappler?

BJ would massacre him in the stand-up AND has better BJJ than him.

Another plausible win.

 

So that leaves Fitch and GSP.

We know he probably wouldn't be GSP because he's just so well-rounded, but again BJ's BJJ would come into play against Fitch majorly. ANOTHER plausible win.

So, he wouldn't beat most of the top guys? I respectfully disagree.[/quote']

 

I can't even respond to this. absolutly delusional.

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Because I said he could win?

Look at the facts' date=' the only real challenges there are Fitch and GSP.[/quote']

 

whatever you say dude. just so you know, shields is probably better than fitch. mostly due to size/strength.

 

you would tell me that BJ's BJJ would play a factor in a fight with lesnar. delusional.

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Who are the top guys at WW?

There's Dan Hardy - I'd take BJ.

Then there's Josh Koscheck - what does he have new to offer? BJ still is a plausible win.

Then Alves - A HUGE WW with power' date=' but BJ's BJJ is always an X-factor. Another plausible win.

And you mentioned Shields? The wrestler/submission grappler?

BJ would massacre him in the stand-up AND has better BJJ than him.

Another plausible win.

 

So that leaves Fitch and GSP.

We know he probably wouldn't be GSP because he's just so well-rounded, but again BJ's BJJ would come into play against Fitch majorly. ANOTHER plausible win.

So, he wouldn't beat most of the top guys? I respectfully disagree.[/quote']

 

I can't even respond to this. absolutly delusional.

agreed.

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whatever you say dude. just so you know' date=' shields is probably better than fitch. mostly due to size/strength.

 

you would tell me that BJ's BJJ would play a factor in a fight with lesnar. delusional.[/quote']

Shields is probably better than Fitch because his size equals it out a little.

Shields has NO worry about the stand-up against Fitch, which brings back "Styles make fights".

Fitch is probably the better MMA wrestler, but Shields has enough size to at least negate some of his control and submit him.

 

You haven't brought anything intelligent into this conversation to counter anything so far -

Tell me how Hardy, Kos, Alves, and Shields would match-up BJ.

I'm intrigued as to how "delusional" I am, when you actually break it down.

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I think BJ at WW is possible if he does it correctly. back in 2004 he could get away with size issues and the guys werent that big. Today BJ would be undersized but if he actually put on weight in the right way instead of just gettin fat to make weight he could be a threat to everyone. He fought Machida at HW and went to a decision. A BJ that is inshape is always dangerous.

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Who are the top guys at WW?

There's Dan Hardy - I'd take BJ.

Then there's Josh Koscheck - what does he have new to offer? BJ still is a plausible win.

Then Alves - A HUGE WW with power' date=' but BJ's BJJ is always an X-factor. Another plausible win.

And you mentioned Shields? The wrestler/submission grappler?

BJ would massacre him in the stand-up AND has better BJJ than him.

Another plausible win.

 

So that leaves Fitch and GSP.

We know he probably wouldn't be GSP because he's just so well-rounded, but again BJ's BJJ would come into play against Fitch majorly. ANOTHER plausible win.

So, he wouldn't beat most of the top guys? I respectfully disagree.[/quote']

 

The only matchup i see him winning is maybe against Kos. Im a huge BJ fan but Dan Hardy would probably destroy Penn in the stand up game, BUT if Penn can take hardy down then Penn gets the win. Alves is to strong for Penn. Fitch is a **** and GSP is GSP meaning it will take an act of congress for him to lose anytime soon. I see where your going and i partially agree.

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Shields is probably better than Fitch because his size equals it out a little.

Shields has NO worry about the stand-up against Fitch' date=' which brings back "Styles make fights".

Fitch is probably the better MMA wrestler, but Shields has enough size to at least negate some of his control and submit him.

 

You haven't brought anything intelligent into this conversation to counter anything so far -

Tell me how Hardy, Kos, Alves, and Shields would match-up BJ.

I'm intrigued as to how "delusional" I am, when you actually break it down.[/quote']

 

it's not worth my time. you are the typical penn fan. you have this image of him embedded in your mind that simply isn't true.

 

kos and shields - elite level wrestlers with good bjj and good cardio. they'd smother the hell out of bj penn. they'd smother the hell out of bj penn if they were natural 55ers. let alone WW's.

 

I don't consider hardy a top WW but unless penn took him down i'd take hardy to win the standup. he's more technical and has reach on him all day. more power due to his size. but penn could win on the feet and could deff. win on the ground. it'd be a good fight.

 

alves is only a top WW when he had a good cut. the guy who fought fitch was a joke. alves fight is basicly the same as hardy but this time penn can't take alves down.

 

hughes still gives bj problems. the same problems gsp, fitch, shields, and kos give him. ellenberger would give him problems. the list goes on.

 

if "compete" means fight at 170, win some and lose some and do enough to keep your contract - he can "compete." if compete means make a title run and beat top guys - he can't.

 

I shouldn't have wasted my time. you can have the last word and tell me how you're right and bj is so awesome. he could lose to edgar tomorow and you'd still tell this forum he'd beat most WW's.

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The only matchup i see him winning is maybe against Kos. Im a huge BJ fan but Dan Hardy would probably destroy Penn in the stand up game' date=' BUT if Penn can take hardy down then Penn gets the win. Alves is to strong for Penn. Fitch is a **** and GSP is GSP meaning it will take an act of congress for him to lose anytime soon. I see where your going and i partially agree.[/quote']

 

Better than the other guy ;)

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it's not worth my time. you are the typical penn fan. you have this image of him embedded in your mind that simply isn't true.

 

kos and shields - elite level wrestlers with good bjj and good cardio. they'd smother the hell out of bj penn. they'd smother the hell out of bj penn if they were natural 55ers. let alone WW's.

 

I don't consider hardy a top WW but unless penn took him down i'd take hardy to win the standup. he's more technical and has reach on him all day. more power due to his size. but penn could win on the feet and could deff. win on the ground. it'd be a good fight.

 

alves is only a top WW when he had a good cut. the guy who fought fitch was a joke. alves fight is basicly the same as hardy but this time penn can't take alves down.

 

hughes still gives bj problems. the same problems gsp' date=' fitch, shields, and kos give him. ellenberger would give him problems. the list goes on.

 

if "compete" means fight at 170, win some and lose some and do enough to keep your contract - he can "compete." if compete means make a title run and beat top guys - he can't.[/quote']

 

I'm objective in all things, but Penn is by far the most naturally talented fighter I've ever seen.

Let's just leave that at that.

 

(Please note that I did indeed place "plausible" after each win)

 

If a prime Hughes had problems with BJ, I don't see very many freakishly strong wrestlers (Kos, Shields and Fitch) presenting many problems with THEIR wrestling. Hughes was (and still is) a more dynamic fighter than any of those three. That's my main reasoning behind his ability to beat them.

 

Hardy's reach is probably the biggest problem, but I highly doubt his ability to stop (as in TKO) BJ before he gets taken down - in which case he would be in a world of trouble.

Alves is good - one of my favorites to be exact, and his strength would be the deciding factor. Main reason I left it at "BJJ is the X-Factor".

 

And with your last paragraph -

Looking at it from a probable standpoint none of the fighters at 170 have the tools to beat GSP. To most, the only way they'd win is if GSP moved up in weight. They're all stuck in the realm of "beating each other" which is simply - competing.

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I read interesting comments on mmajunkie stating Penn wants more fights even if its not at light weight. Someone mentioned a welter weight matchup between penn and fitch (some claim it would validate the number 2 WW after Kos-GSP fight).

 

Just curious to know you alls comments/predictions (and if Joe Silva reading...a potential matchup ;-).

 

Can't see BJ doing very well against Fitch.

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And with your last paragraph -

Looking at it from a probable standpoint none of the fighters at 170 have the tools to beat GSP. To most' date=' the only way they'd win is if GSP moved up in weight. They're all stuck in the realm of "beating each other" which is simply - competing.[/quote']

 

he hasn't fought kos yet (who is much better than the kos he fought a few years back). and he hasn't fought shields yet who is a bigger/stronger jon fitch. not saying either will win (I don't think so) but we'll see. them beating each other is competing becuase they're top guys. my point is BJ wouldn't beat any of them - hence he wouldn't compete in that division.

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he hasn't fought kos yet (who is much better than the kos he fought a few years back). and he hasn't fought shields yet who is a bigger/stronger jon fitch. not saying either will win (I don't think so) but we'll see. them beating each other is competing becuase they're top guys. my point is BJ wouldn't beat any of them - hence he wouldn't compete in that division.

Lol fair enough.

I was just going to wait for your response before I logged out but yeah thanks for the "mostly" civil discussion. It's rare these days in the UFC section.

 

I'll just finish off by saying that his name alone would warrant a title shot if he could beat any of them ;)

I could never count out BJ seeing as I've followed him since practically his beginning in pro MMA.

Just my two cents ;)

 

Later broski.

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Randy can still compete at HW' date=' and BJ can still compete at WW.

Just because they probably wouldn't win the title at those weight classes, it's hard to deny the fact that they could STILL be considered in the top 10, if not 5 in those weight classes. Physical disadvantages aside, it's ludicrous to suggest that they can't "compete" simple because they wouldn't beat the champion.

 

If we said that, then the whole WW class "can't compete at WW" because none of them can beat St. Pierre.[/quote']

 

this...

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