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Carlos Condit wins via Submission- Thread dated 10/14/10


MachidaPwned

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Can't get with that, Condit has always just been one of those guys I could never get behind, all thae way back to his WEC days.

 

And I just can't see any way he is superior to Hardy.

 

Oh, and if GSP couldn't sub him with either of those nasty subs he had sunk in deep, I highly doubt a second rate scrub like Condit can. He would be a good addition to Belator, maybe then he would have a half a chance at a championship again.

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Unlike GSP' date=' Condit will break his arm. However, I do not see this ending in a sub...[/quote']

 

So GSP was lying his *** off when in the post fight interview he said he was trying to break Hardy's arm in that fight but couldn't because Hardy defended so well?

 

Some GSP fan you are!

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Can't get with that' date=' Condit has always just been one of those guys I could never get behind, all thae way back to his WEC days.

 

And I just can't see any way he is superior to Hardy.

 

Oh, and if GSP couldn't sub him with either of those nasty subs he had sunk in deep, I highly doubt a second rate scrub like Condit can. He would be a good addition to Belator, maybe then he would have a half a chance at a championship again.[/quote']

 

Wow, Josh.. you've got cases of Haterade for Condit, eh?

Your post is complete nonsense. Especially when you say you don't see Condit being superior anywhere.

 

Condit via choke of some sort. Likely triangle.

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Wow' date=' Josh.. you've got cases of Haterade for Condit, eh?

Your post is complete nonsense. Especially when you say you don't see Condit being superior anywhere.

 

Condit via choke of some sort. Likely triangle.[/quote']

 

OK, I can concede that Condit MAY be better offensively on the ground with subs, but then Hardy has been working hard on his ground game in the states so you can't even say that for sure any more.

 

But Hardy's striking and sub defense is by far more technically sound than Condit.

 

I guess I may be bias a little, I just haven't liked Condit much from the beginning.

 

I think his eyes are too close together too, that has to mean something!

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So GSP was lying his *** off when in the post fight interview he said he was trying to break Hardy's arm in that fight but couldn't because Hardy defended so well?

 

Some GSP fan you are!

 

If you watch after the fight Greg Jackson is showing him why he could not break his arm. He dident have the position right when he had the armbar thats why he was unable to break Dans arm.

 

Condit will not make the same mistake if he gets a hold of Hardys arm and he does not tap Carlos is going to take that arm home with him. I dont really see the fight going that way IMO Condit will win by UD

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If you watch after the fight Greg Jackson is showing him why he could not break his arm. He dident have the position right when he had the armbar thats why he was unable to break Dans arm.

 

Condit will not make the same mistake if he gets a hold of Hardys arm and he does not tap Carlos is going to take that arm home with him. I dont really see the fight going that way IMO Condit will win by UD

 

Sounds like a BS excuse for Jackson and GSP fans so they don't have to acknowledge that Hardy was better than anyone expected on the ground.

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Can't get with that' date=' Condit has always just been one of those guys I could never get behind, all thae way back to his WEC days.

 

And I just can't see any way he is superior to Hardy.

 

Oh, and if GSP couldn't sub him with either of those nasty subs he had sunk in deep, I highly doubt a second rate scrub like Condit can. He would be a good addition to Belator, maybe then he would have a half a chance at a championship again.[/quote']

 

I truly believe that GSP let that Kimura go. I'll give the armbar escape to Hardy, but after rewatching that fight a few times the kimura escape hard for me to accept

 

So GSP was lying his *** off when in the post fight interview he said he was trying to break Hardy's arm in that fight but couldn't because Hardy defended so well?

 

Some GSP fan you are!

 

I think he had to lie. If he did in fact let go of that kimura which I suspect he did and came out and said he didn't want to seriously injure his opponent then other fighters may gamble and refuse to tap if they know GSP will not break it. It will be even harder for him to land a good submission.

 

The armbar was sloppy and that was a good escape by Hardy though. Hardy definitely showed resiliency and I think he will take this fight, although I wouldn't mind seeing Condit win. I like both equally, although hardy is a bit more intriguing.

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Well I was just telling you what I saw after the fight was over. What makes you think that Hardys ground game is so good? Cause he got dominated by GSP for 5 rounds and dident get subed? Seeing as GSP has never been knowen for being a BJJ expert or even being that great at subbmitting people (5subs) . Then you have Carlos and almost half of his wins were by sub (13subs). So comparing the two based on there BJJ experince is Kinda dumb if you ask me.

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I guess some people's definition of "domination" is just different.

 

To me, if someone is dominated, then at the end of the fight there will be at least some damage (see Fitch, Alves, Kos, BJ II).

 

GSP took him down at will, but could do nothing with him once they got there but keep him there most of the time. It may look like domination, and come across on the cards as domination, but to me once that fight hit the ground, it was a stalemate. It was the TD's that won the fight, not anything GSP did with his top position.

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I truly believe that GSP let that Kimura go. I'll give the armbar escape to Hardy, but after rewatching that fight a few times the kimura escape hard for me to accept

 

This. From what I remember, after the fully locked Kimura slipped out, GSP didn't bother getting a hold back on it to apply it again. He knew he'd win the fight regardless without snapping Hardy's arm.

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This. From what I remember' date=' after [b']the fully locked Kimura slipped out, GSP didn't bother getting a hold back on it to apply it again[/b]. He knew he'd win the fight regardless without snapping Hardy's arm.

 

A fully locked in submission does not simply just "slip out". Very few people have given Hardy the credit he deserves for defending the subs so well. Except for GSP himself after the fight.

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I guess some people's definition of "domination" is just different.

 

To me' date=' if someone is dominated, then at the end of the fight there will be at least some damage (see Fitch, Alves, Kos, BJ II).

 

GSP took him down at will, but could do nothing with him once they got there but keep him there most of the time. It may look like domination, and come across on the cards as domination, but to me once that fight hit the ground, it was a stalemate. It was the TD's that won the fight, not anything GSP did with his top position.[/quote']

 

well it had to help that George won the stand up too.... Stalemate? From what I remember from the fight GSP was able to pass Dans guard very easy and he got the mount 2 or 3 times I think. That not what I call a stalemate on the ground. For me Hardy would have had to keep George in his guard and stall the fight untill it was stood up not get mounted and give up you back like he did. But at the same time I was impressed with how Hardy was able to shake GSP of his back a few times.

 

 

EDIT: The sub dident slip out GSP went to get more levrage and thats when Hardy was able to break his grip. But I havent watched the fight since it happend so I might be mistaken.

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It is absurd to say that Hardy has a better chance at subbing Condit than Condit does Hardy. Apparently, Hardy has the most overrated ground game in MMA. Or is it that people don't realize how good Condit's ground game is? 13 wins by submission as opposed to GSP's 5-----I think Condit has a better sub game.

 

Condit will sub Hardy.

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well it had to help that George won the stand up too.... Stalemate? From what I remember from the fight GSP was able to pass Dans guard very easy and he got the mount 2 or 3 times I think. That not what I call a stalemate on the ground. For me Hardy would have had to keep George in his guard and stall the fight untill it was stood up not get mounted and give up you back like he did. But at the same time I was impressed with how Hardy was able to shake GSP of his back a few times.

 

 

EDIT: The sub dident slip out GSP went to get more levrage and thats when Hardy was able to break his grip. But I havent watched the fight since it happend so I might be mistaken.

 

GSP definitely outwrestled him for position, but was able to mount zero effective offense, ie: strikes, GnP, subs...

 

Any way you look at it that was an awesome display of groundfighting on both parts.

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So because GSP cant finish an armbar Dan Hardy has good submission defense?? You guys are clueless...

 

He didnt avoid the subs, which would have indicated good defense. They were sunk in and locked up, GSP just didnt have the technique to make him tap or snap his arm.

 

He showed poor submission defense imo.

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GSP definitely outwrestled him for position' date=' but was able to mount zero effective offense, ie: strikes, GnP, subs...

 

Any way you look at it that was an awesome display of groundfighting on both parts.[/quote']

 

GSP sunk in 2 subs... How the hell did Dan Hardy show awesome ground skills?

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It is absurd to say that Hardy has a better chance at subbing Condit than Condit does Hardy. Apparently' date=' Hardy has the most overrated ground game in MMA. Or is it that people don't realize how good Condit's ground game is? 13 wins by submission as opposed to GSP's 5-----I think Condit has a better sub game.

 

Condit will sub Hardy.[/quote']

 

13 subs in WEC and ROTR when neither promotion could be considerred world class.

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OK' date=' I can concede that Condit MAY be better offensively on the ground with subs, but then Hardy has been working hard on his ground game in the states so you can't even say that for sure any more.

 

But Hardy's striking and sub defense is by far more technically sound than Condit.

 

I guess I may be bias a little, I just haven't liked Condit much from the beginning.

 

I think his eyes are too close together too, that has to mean something![/quote']

 

Hahaha!!

This is a great fight for me, as I'm a huge fan of both fighters. I really don't wanna see Hardy lose, but I tend to swing freely from Condit's groinal area. :P

That said, if Dan Hardy takes him down, I think he'll be making a big mistake.

 

Point of note.. Condit has never been KO'd.

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13 subs in WEC and ROTR when neither promotion could be considerred world class.

 

now you just lost all the credibility that you had with me with this comment. Jose Aldo is not world class?? The Cowboy or Bendo are also not world class.... oh yeah I forgot about Torres the guy that everybody was calling top P4P fighter not world class? With that comment you just labled yourself as a UFC "fanboy" as you like to call people.

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13 subs in WEC and ROTR when neither promotion could be considerred world class.

 

He holds submission victories over the following:

 

Carlo Prater- Submission expert with 12 sub wins and a notable submission wins over Pat Healy and Carlos Condit

 

Frank Trigg- Has only been subbed by the elite (GSP, Hughes, and Condit)

 

Brock Larson- Ground specialist with 15 submission wins

 

John Alessio- Has lost 7 by submission but has won 12 by submission

 

These are just his most notable submission wins. What makes you think Hardy has such great sub D?

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now you just lost all the credibility that you had with me with this comment. Jose Aldo is not world class?? The Cowboy or Bendo are also not world class.... oh yeah I forgot about Torres the guy that everybody was calling top P4P fighter not world class? With that comment you just labled yourself as a UFC "fanboy" as you like to call people.

 

Having a few world class fighters on the payroll does not make a world class organization.

 

Aldo was not with WEC at the time, nor was Bendo.

 

And I never had Torres at the top of any list since during his reign he wasn't facing world class competition, and when he did, he lost.

 

And do some research, I have never referred to anyone as any kind of "fanboy".

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He holds submission victories over the following:

 

Carlo Prater- Submission expert with 12 sub wins and a notable submission wins over Pat Healy and Carlos Condit

 

Frank Trigg- Has only been subbed by the elite (GSP' date=' Hughes, and Condit)

 

Brock Larson- Ground specialist with 15 submission wins

 

John Alessio- Has lost 7 by submission but has won 12 by submission

 

These are just his most notable submission wins. What makes you think Hardy has such great sub D?[/quote']

 

And as I said, none of them make the prelim card of today's UFC other than Trigg and that is simply because of his name recognition.

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And as I said' date=' none of them make the prelim card of today's UFC other than Trigg and that is simply because of his name recognition.[/quote']

 

Well let's use your theory, and apply that to all of Dan Hardy's KO's..

 

Rory Markham

Daniel Weichel

Chad Reiner

*Hidetaka Monma

Alexandre Izidro

*Danny Rushton

**Diego Gonzalez

Lautaro Arborelo

Stuart Barrs

Andy Walker

Aaron Barrow

 

* - corner stoppage

** - cut

 

So let's see here.. you discredit Condit's submissions over ESTABLISHED and KNOWN fighters, but yet you say good things about Hardy's striking skills.

Hmmm... something doesn't add up.

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Well let's use your theory' date=' and apply that to all of Dan Hardy's KO's..

 

Rory Markham

[b']Daniel Weichel

Chad Reiner

*Hidetaka Monma

Alexandre Izidro

*Danny Rushton

**Diego Gonzalez

Lautaro Arborelo

Stuart Barrs

Andy Walker

Aaron Barrow[/b]

* - corner stoppage

** - cut

 

So let's see here.. you discredit Condit's submissions over ESTABLISHED and KNOWN fighters, but yet you say good things about Hardy's striking skills.

Hmmm... something doesn't add up.

 

who are they? I know the first guy he is the one who nate diaz knocked out

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OK everyone take a step back and look at the GSP/Hardy fight as a whole.

 

Sure GSP took him down at will, but what happened once it was on the ground? For every pass there was an escape, for every sub attempt there was a defense, for every attempt at GnP there was a reversal back to standing.

 

Now compare that fight with the Fitch, Kos, Serra, Hughes, Alves, etc, etc..

 

Those guys ended the night looking like someone ran their faces across a meat grinder, while Hardy looked like he could go another 5 rounds.

 

I know not many people give much credit for defense, but in jiu jitsu, judo, wrestling, or any other groundfighting style defense counts for alot.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never called Hardy a Guru of anything, but I do give credit where it is due, and Hardy showed in that fight he is no pushover on the ground, even against the man who is said to be the best grappler in MMA.

 

IMO, Condit and Hardy are pretty evenly matched in groundfighting, but Hardy is styllistically way better than Condit standing, hence, the edge in this fight goes to Hardy.

 

Don't get so pissed when someone's opinion does not mirror yours.

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OK everyone take a step back and look at the GSP/Hardy fight as a whole.

 

Sure GSP took him down at will' date=' but what happened once it was on the ground? [b']For every [/b]pass there was an escape, for every sub attempt there was a defense, for every attempt at GnP there was a reversal back to standing.

 

Now compare that fight with the Fitch, Kos, Serra, Hughes, Alves, etc, etc..

 

Those guys ended the night looking like someone ran their faces across a meat grinder, while Hardy looked like he could go another 5 rounds.

 

I know not many people give much credit for defense, but in jiu jitsu, judo, wrestling, or any other groundfighting style defense counts for alot.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never called Hardy a Guru of anything, but I do give credit where it is due, and Hardy showed in that fight he is no pushover on the ground, even against the man who is said to be the best grappler in MMA.

 

IMO, Condit and Hardy are pretty evenly matched in groundfighting, but Hardy is styllistically way better than Condit standing, hence, the edge in this fight goes to Hardy.

 

Don't get so pissed when someone's opinion does not mirror yours.

 

Was not trying to put words in your mouth just using the word that I thought decribed best the way you feel about hardy. As for the bold stuff there was not an escape for every pass. Dan was able to get up mabey 2 or 3 times while GSP was passing his gaurd very easy and able to get side controlle at will. He did a good job not tapping when GSP had the subs in but other than that he did a bad job at defence while he was on the ground. At the same time I can understand what you mean seeing as how Hardy is mostly a stand up fighter.

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OK everyone take a step back and look at the GSP/Hardy fight as a whole.

 

Sure GSP took him down at will' date=' but what happened once it was on the ground? For every pass there was an escape, for every sub attempt there was a defense, for every attempt at GnP there was a reversal back to standing.

 

Now compare that fight with the Fitch, Kos, Serra, Hughes, Alves, etc, etc..

 

Those guys ended the night looking like someone ran their faces across a meat grinder, while Hardy looked like he could go another 5 rounds.

 

I know not many people give much credit for defense, but in jiu jitsu, judo, wrestling, or any other groundfighting style defense counts for alot.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never called Hardy a Guru of anything, but I do give credit where it is due, and Hardy showed in that fight he is no pushover on the ground, even against the man who is said to be the best grappler in MMA.

 

IMO, Condit and Hardy are pretty evenly matched in groundfighting, but Hardy is styllistically way better than Condit standing, hence, the edge in this fight goes to Hardy.

 

Don't get so pissed when someone's opinion does not mirror yours.[/quote']

 

I'm not pissed about anything.

Fact is, compared to Hardy, Condit is the much better ground fighter. I would put the striking almost even. The edge in this fight goes to Condit. No doubt about it.

 

Don't confuse GSP's kindness as Hardy having good ground defense.

It was very evident that he was NOT trying to hurt him. He could tell early on that Dan was not in the same league as him, so he spared him a beat down.

Why would he want to beat somebody up when he feels like it would be a good opporunity to try out his submission game? He obviously felt no threat from Hardy, and Georges isn't the type of guy who WANTS to hurt his opponents... especially one that is far inferior.

 

Also.. I'm calling for a Condit victory via some form of choke. This will likely be a result of Hardy trying to take him down (guillotine), or him succeeding by then getting triangled from the bottom.

They won't be top-subs like Georges was attempting.

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So the beatdown he has put on everyone else he has faced in his career mean nothing and he didn't beatdown Hardy out of mercy? Why was he so pissed at Fitch or Alves or Koscheck?

 

That just makes no sense to me, especially considerring the smack Hardy ran prior to the fight and the statements after the fight by GSP himself.

 

Why would he paint himself in a worse picture by saying "I was trying to break his arm but couldn't" if he was so merciful and kind? If he was so image conscious don't you think it would make more sense for him to say "I could have broken his arm twice but chose not to"? And that does nothing to explain away the complete lack of any effective GnP or the fact that yes, EVERY time GSP passed to mount or back control, Hardy escaped.

 

But again, I concede I am bias due to an irrational dislike for Condit and his too close together eyes.

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So the beatdown he has put on everyone else he has faced in his career mean nothing and he didn't beatdown Hardy out of mercy?

 

That just makes no sense to me' date=' especially considerring the smack Hardy ran prior to the fight and the statements after the fight by GSP himself.

 

Why would he paint himself in a worse picture by saying "I was trying to break his arm but couldn't" if he was so merciful and kind? If he was so image conscious don't you think it would make more sense for him to say "I could have broken his arm twice but chose not to"? And that does nothing to explain away the complete lack of any effective GnP or the fact that yes, EVERY time GSP passed to mount or back control, Hardy escaped.

 

But again, I concede I am bias due to an irrational dislike for Condit and his too close together eyes.[/quote']

 

Hardy is a young guy who was 'gifted' a title shot. He's got a lot of time left to get better.

As already stated, if Georges would have said "I let go of the arm..", then other opponents could see that as weakness and try to exploit it in future fights.

That wasn't what I was talking about, however. His lack of GNP was because he didn't want to hurt Dan Hardy. Georges knows that the smack talk was done just to hype the fight, and that Hardy actually has a lot of respect for him. A lot of it was Hardy trying to convince HIMSELF that he had a chance to win.

 

Not that any of this really matters. We'll see what happens on Saturday.

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I like both fighters' date=' but I just want to see Condit win in front of Hardy's hometown. I think it's going to be FOTN.[/quote']

 

Its not his hometown :) sorry.

 

Condit and Hardy on there feet is nowhere near even IMO. Hardy has neverbeen outstruck, all of his losses are due to him being outwrestled/subbed.

 

Condit does have a big advantage on the ground though. I like a lot of people, like both fighters. It should be a war.

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I beg to disagree Hardy via motherfukin KO ;p

 

Hardy is identical to patrick cote in stance. Once you realize that he roots himself to strike, he becomes easy to fight. Hardy does not have a chance in this fight because he is easy to read and has already been exposed. Trust me, i am very confident than Condit will bring a tactical plan similar to GSP/Hardy. Since Condit does not have a good shoot he will bring him down from the clinch.

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