guesswho Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 He has a weak takedown defense and i believe lost his UFC debut to takedowns. His groundgame is solid but a wrestler with a point plan or greg jackson can pull of the decision on him. Condit reminds me of the Diaz brothers...he is a superior fighter but his weak defense against wrestlers can cause him decisions. Nate has lost back to back to wrestlers and Nick was released from the UFC for back to back to back loses to wrestlers and a judo man. I like Condit but until the rules change to not highly favor wrestlers or the human shape evolves where to flimsy legs dont hold most of our body weight...i just see fighters like Condit,Diaz Bros,Bj Penn,Rampage put on the shelf and being obscure while wrestlers like Rashad,Chael,Maynard,GSP,Fitch,Koscheck continue to excel in the limelight of the UFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaySmartGE Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Frank Mir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Frank Mir ******? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaySmartGE Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 ******? guesswho is Frank Mir. Why? Frank Mir always says ''Lets be realistic'' God Im smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 guesswho is Frank Mir.Why? Frank Mir always says ''Lets be realistic'' God Im smart. let's be realistic, Condit is from Greg Jackson's camp so this whole thread is invalid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaySmartGE Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 let's be realistic' date=' Condit is from Greg Jackson's camp so this whole thread is invalid[/quote'] Yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKN_TTK Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 let's be realistic' date=' Condit is from Greg Jackson's camp so this whole thread is invalid[/quote'] What? How? Because there are some good wrestlers in that camp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 What? How? Because there are some good wrestlers in that camp? no because the OP was pointing out how Jackson's camp tries to only outpoint fighters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDevil Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 yeah..that is true his ground game blows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_MC Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 I'm sure he'll be improving on his wrestling just like everyone else from Jackson's camp!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswho Posted October 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 no because the OP was pointing out how Jackson's camp tries to only outpoint fighters The Jackson point plan doesnt stop at Condit. Jackson already implemented that style in the minds of all wrestlers in Condits division whether they are his students or not. Condit is not going to implement a Jackson point plan because Condit doesnt have the style for it. Hence Dan Hardy and Hence Why GSP took 5 rounds. Different styles, see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portorockxxl Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 i like GSP but man is getting tuff to pay 50 dollars to see him hold a guy for 5 round ala Fitch boring, what happen to the GSP that was able to strike i agree when people say hes ok with lay&pray now . is like he dont want to take a chance and end up flat on his a*s like in hes fight with Serra but thats part of the fighting game and if u not ready to take that chance to put it all on the line then a quit fighting ..... much better to be known to put great fights win or lose than just hold and opponet down and just outpoint them for the win how that prove u the best ! does not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 i like GSP but man is getting tuff to pay 50 dollars to see him hold a guy for 5 round ala Fitch boring' date=' what happen to the GSP that was able to strike i agree when people say hes ok with lay&pray now . is like he dont want to take a chance and end up flat on his a*s like in hes fight with Serra but thats part of the fighting game and if u not ready to take that chance to put it all on the line then a quit fighting ..... much better to be known to put great fights win or lose than just hold and opponet down and just outpoint them for the win how that prove u the best ! does not...[/quote'] oh ya he clearly laid on Fitch...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswho Posted October 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 oh ya he clearly laid on Fitch...... lol. He did lay on him but he also dominated him with his layage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portorockxxl Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 don't get me wrong nothing against wrestling base fighters is just the guys out there just holding the other guy down not looking to cause damage by G&P or Sub. just holding & prayin to win . we know who this guys are BORING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portorockxxl Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 YEAH , dude that fight was a while back and i do like GSP just in recent fights he needs to step it up a notch ! dont mind payin to watch the fights i just want them to fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 come back to me when you fully understand what it takes to fight and all the planning behind it because CLEARLY you guys have no clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boone1406050353 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 oh ya he clearly laid on Fitch...... LMAO, Don't you love it when people comment on fights that they obviously never even watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesbonesbones Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Hes a good fighter, not a great fighter. He beat Dan Hardy who only got a title shot for beating a misdiagnosed sick Mike Swick who was fighting in the wrong weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Hes a good fighter' date=' not a great fighter. He beat Dan Hardy who only got a title shot for beating a misdiagnosed sick Mike Swick who was fighting in the wrong weight class.[/quote'] Dan Hardy got that title fight to fill in the void while we wait for a true contender to show up lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boone1406050353 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 come back to me when you fully understand what it takes to fight and all the planning behind it because CLEARLY you guys have no clue +1, These guys need to stick to K-1 or Boxing, because to complain about wrestlers shows that they have no clue about the evolution of MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesbonesbones Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 oh ya he clearly laid on Fitch...... I thought it was Minotauro who got run over by the truck? Oh wait, no, now I remember, that work of art is all GSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAD0K3N Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 ufc wont ever change the wrestling part of it as that is their main source of fighters ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiletSeat Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 +1' date=' These guys need to stick to K-1 or Boxing, because to complain about wrestlers shows that they have no clue about the evolution of MMA.[/quote'] Why do people always say "Go watch K1" as if it is a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Why do people always say "Go watch K1" as if it is a bad thing? lol +1 I LOVE K1 go to tough-man competition fights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boone1406050353 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Why do people always say "Go watch K1" as if it is a bad thing? I didn't say it was a bad thing. But if all you're in to is striking and you don't like wrestling, then why watch MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesbonesbones Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Dan Hardy got that title fight to fill in the void while we wait for a true contender to show up lol Haha yeah lets ponder how many wins Dan Hardy would get against a true middleweight contender GSP as champ - no Koscheck - no Fitch - no Alves - no Hughes - no Penn - no He also lost to Marcus Davis not too long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Haha yeah lets ponder how many wins Dan Hardy would get against a true middleweight contender GSP as champ - no Koscheck - no Fitch - no Alves - no Hughes - no Penn - no He also lost to Marcus Davis not too long ago. And beat Rory "No Chin" Markhalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portorockxxl Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Nutthuging is wrong ! PLEASE STOP THE NUTTHUGGIN.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Nutthuging is wrong ! PLEASE STOP THE NUTTHUGGIN.... who's nuthuggin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobilator Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 i like GSP but man is getting tuff to pay 50 dollars to see him hold a guy for 5 round ala Fitch boring' date=' what happen to the GSP that was able to strike i agree when people say hes ok with lay&pray now . is like he dont want to take a chance and end up flat on his a*s like in hes fight with Serra but thats part of the fighting game and if u not ready to take that chance to put it all on the line then a quit fighting ..... much better to be known to put great fights win or lose than just hold and opponet down and just outpoint them for the win how that prove u the best ! does not...[/quote'] Fitch vs GSP was a good fight , i dont know how u can said it was boring . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTech Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 +1' date=' These guys need to stick to K-1 or Boxing, because to complain about wrestlers shows that they have no clue about the evolution of MMA.[/quote'] Yet another clueless post. Wrestlers dominating are not a sign of "the evolution of MMA", they are a sign of people taking advantage of the evolution of MMA rules in North America. Theres a big ****ing difference... Most people complaining about lay and pray are not complaining about the wrestlers as much as the scoring system that has BJJ artists scared to pull guard because it may be scored as a takedown for the other guy and he can outpoint you simply by being on top of you... I watch ADCC and other grappling competitions, I enjoy the ground game alot. I dont enjoy watching Maynard, Rashad (lately) or some of the other wet blankets but to say this makes me any less of an mma fan is a ****ing joke. Go watch wrestling if you want to see people try to outpoint each other. I like fighters that come to fight, to finish people, whether by submission or ko... Carlos Condit has finished 25/26 of his matches. 12 by knockout, 13 by submission. Thats the sort of fighter that I like to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Fitch vs GSP was a good fight ' date=' i dont know how u can said it was boring .[/quote'] Tuf Era fan boy he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portorockxxl Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 those who the shoe fit's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portorockxxl Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Yet another clueless post. Wrestlers dominating are not a sign of "the evolution of MMA"' date=' they are a sign of people taking advantage of the evolution of MMA rules in North America. Theres a big ****ing difference... Most people complaining about lay and pray are not complaining about the wrestlers as much as the scoring system that has BJJ artists scared to pull guard because it may be scored as a takedown for the other guy and he can outpoint you simply by being on top of you... I watch ADCC and other grappling competitions, I enjoy the ground game alot. I dont enjoy watching Maynard, Rashad (lately) or some of the other wet blankets but to say this makes me any less of an mma fan is a ****ing joke. Go watch wrestling if you want to see people try to outpoint each other. I like fighters that come to fight, to finish people, whether by submission or ko... Carlos Condit has finished 25/26 of his matches. 12 by knockout, 13 by submission. Thats the sort of fighter that I like to watch.[/quote'] Amen to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambo91 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Yet another clueless post. Wrestlers dominating are not a sign of "the evolution of MMA"' date=' they are a sign of people taking advantage of the evolution of MMA rules in North America. Theres a big ****ing difference... Most people complaining about lay and pray are not complaining about the wrestlers as much as the scoring system that has BJJ artists scared to pull guard because it may be scored as a takedown for the other guy and he can outpoint you simply by being on top of you... I watch ADCC and other grappling competitions, I enjoy the ground game alot. I dont enjoy watching Maynard, Rashad (lately) or some of the other wet blankets but to say this makes me any less of an mma fan is a ****ing joke. Go watch wrestling if you want to see people try to outpoint each other. I like fighters that come to fight, to finish people, whether by submission or ko... Carlos Condit has finished 25/26 of his matches. 12 by knockout, 13 by submission. Thats the sort of fighter that I like to watch.[/quote'] One of the best posts I?ve seen on the forum. I 100% agree, the current scoring system favours top position way, way too much. We?ve seen guys take a beating whilst in someone else guard, but the judges don?t look at it like that. It?s not just north America anymore. A lot of British and European fighters learn some forum of take down to try and steal rounds and it makes for some boring fights with the last minute or so clinching to try and get the takedown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portorockxxl Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Fitch vs GSP was a good fight ' date=' i dont know how u can said it was boring .[/quote'] that fight yeah , he beat the crap out of Fitch and i dont like Fitch but i was impress with the amount of punishment he was able to take...im talking recently i was'nt talking of that fight by ala Fitch i ment like Fitch win fights lay&pray is boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePredictor Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Yet another clueless post. Wrestlers dominating are not a sign of "the evolution of MMA"' date=' they are a sign of people taking advantage of the evolution of MMA rules in North America. Theres a big ****ing difference... Most people complaining about lay and pray are not complaining about the wrestlers as much as the scoring system that has BJJ artists scared to pull guard because it may be scored as a takedown for the other guy and he can outpoint you simply by being on top of you... I watch ADCC and other grappling competitions, I enjoy the ground game alot. I dont enjoy watching Maynard, Rashad (lately) or some of the other wet blankets but to say this makes me any less of an mma fan is a ****ing joke. Go watch wrestling if you want to see people try to outpoint each other. I like fighters that come to fight, to finish people, whether by submission or ko... Carlos Condit has finished 25/26 of his matches. 12 by knockout, 13 by submission. Thats the sort of fighter that I like to watch.[/quote'] Good post. I do like the wrestling aspect in a lot of ways though. Everybody loves it when a wrestler gets on top of somebody and TKO's them. It happens a lot but it just goes unsaid. Also, if the wrestling aspect was not there,. the whole sport would change. I am not for lay n pray at all. Maybe the refs just need to be sticklers about inflicting damage or advancing position. More stand ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boone1406050353 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Yet another clueless post. Wrestlers dominating are not a sign of "the evolution of MMA"' date=' they are a sign of people taking advantage of the evolution of MMA rules in North America. Theres a big ****ing difference... Most people complaining about lay and pray are not complaining about the wrestlers as much as the scoring system that has BJJ artists scared to pull guard because it may be scored as a takedown for the other guy and he can outpoint you simply by being on top of you... I watch ADCC and other grappling competitions, I enjoy the ground game alot. I dont enjoy watching Maynard, Rashad (lately) or some of the other wet blankets but to say this makes me any less of an mma fan is a ****ing joke. Go watch wrestling if you want to see people try to outpoint each other. I like fighters that come to fight, to finish people, whether by submission or ko... Carlos Condit has finished 25/26 of his matches. 12 by knockout, 13 by submission. Thats the sort of fighter that I like to watch.[/quote'] You got me all wrong, perhaps it was my fault, I should have been more clear. I don't like the wet blanket technique any more than you. My point about the evolution of MMA, points to MMA being the melting pot of fighting styles. Wrestling is here to stay, if you don't like geting taken down then the learn some TDD. Most of the coments I see about wrestlers, isn't complaining about the point system. It's spewing hate for the fighter. I agree that the point system is a joke. But, why complain about something that you can't control. So that's why I say, if you don't like wrestling, then why are you watching MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswho Posted October 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 You got me all wrong' date=' perhaps it was my fault, I should have been more clear. I don't like the wet blanket technique any more than you. My point about the evolution of MMA, points to MMA being the melting pot of fighting styles. Wrestling is here to stay, if you don't like geting taken down then the learn some TDD. Most of the coments I see about wrestlers, isn't complaining about the point system. It's spewing hate for the fighter. I agree that the point system is a joke. But, why complain about something that you can't control. So that's why I say, if you don't like wrestling, then why are you watching MMA.[/quote'] Wrestling will always be a major factor of MMA because it is a control style. Nobody with intelligent forum posts has ever said remove wrestling. Since MMA is not about finding out who is the better fighter but the better stylist, the rules desperatly need an overhaul so things like legs kicks, knee counters to shoots, and strikes from your back are more valued. They should also standup any takedown that leads to small punching for more than a minute from the full or open guard and half guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlebright Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 One of the best posts I?ve seen on the forum. I 100% agree' date=' the current scoring system favours top position way, way too much. We?ve seen guys take a beating whilst in someone else guard, but the judges don?t look at it like that. It?s not just north America anymore. A lot of British and European fighters learn some forum of take down to try and steal rounds and it makes for some boring fights with the last minute or so clinching to try and get the takedown.[/quote'] Its an education process that will take time, but it is happening. Big John McCarthy has been visiting various places that sanction MMA doing his training course. They showed some of it on MMA Connected here in Canada and one of the things John was discussing in the clip was properly recognizing who exactly is pushing the fight. He was showing examples of where a guy on the bottom is the one pushing the fight, threatening the guy on top with submission attempts and that just because someone is on top does not mean they are "winning". Hopefully over time this education process will have filtered through all of the judges and referees and we'll see better scoring and officiating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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