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Enough is Enough


serb-1

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Ok, this really has to be settled. A lot of people have used this line on these forums and think its an automatic argument winner when in reality it has no freaking business being in any intelligent MMA discussion ever.

 

 

"If he was 100%, he would have murdered (insert fighter)"

 

a variation on this is "O it depends on which (insert fighter (usually shogun or bj penn)) shows up, if the right one does then its all over"

 

Fact is, nobody gives a crap about your 100% if you don't bring it in the octagon on the the day of your fight! and as for BJ, all i ever hear from his fans is O, if the guy who faced diego/sherk/florian shows up, no one is stopping him. obviously not, because frankie stopped him when BJ said he was training hard, and yet still some people say he wasn't 100%

 

Same thing for Shogun, I could care less what he did in Pride, because tha was then and this is now. Right now, he barely beat a washed up Coleman, choked out by forrest (which would happen again), and knocked out chuck liddell for a title shot! wow then i guess rich franklin should be in front of rashad

 

 

 

And now don't go "O anderson silva had his fanboys say he had a rib injury"

speaking for myself most people knew he would get taken down and controlled by fail sonnen and AS WE ALL KNEW he would get submitted!

 

Discuss why both Penn and Shogun fanboys gotta step off and recognize thx

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LOL.

 

Shogun is 19-4

 

I guess Anderson Silva is inconsistent too with 4 losses in his career.

 

"I could care less about what he did in Pride"

 

Well, I could give a s**t about UFC records. I only care about Pride records !

 

See how ridiculous that sounds?

 

"Its all about what have you done now"

 

Shogun is the current champ. It doesn't get any more up to date then that !

 

Seriously your way off base here in everything you say

 

To adress another point. A legit injury that hampers performance is a reason not an excuse. It is what it is. When a consistent ultra talented fighter like Shogun comes in looking like he did against Forrest/Coleman then you know something is wrong and you want to know why? There's no excuses about it.

 

The Shogun we all expected in his debut arrived against Liddell healthy and prepared. An even more bada$$ improved Shogun went on to beat Machida arguably 2x...Obliterating him in the rematch....

 

Look at his past before the Griffin/Coleman fights and what he accomplished after the Griffin/Coleman fights.

 

Hopefully you can put two and two together

 

Really, for people to so cling on to the Forrest loss from 3 years ago is beyond pathetic. Like if the Forrest loss defines Shogun's whole career. Like if one loss> win after win and knock out after knockout over top notch high level opponents.

 

Since you like discrediting fighters so much lets take a look at Rashad

 

-Terrible losing performance against a 185lb Bisbing.

 

-Terrible losing performance against a washed up Tito that turns into a draw because of a fence grab

 

-Lost the first round to Liddell and was well on his way to losing the second

 

Yeah all those s**ty performances sure earned Rashad his title shot...LOL

 

And did I forget he had FIVE SPLIT decision wins .

 

Then Rashad gets absolutely WRECKED on the feet by one of the greatest paper champs ever in Forrest Griffin untill Griffin starts getting too comfortable beating that a$$ and gets lazy and finished. Luckily for Rashad Griffin has no power. Griffin still rocked him once though LMAO

 

Rashad then loses his belt in humilating fashion to Machida. Rashad was literally raped.

 

Rashad has been so impressive...Let's praise him and discredit Shogun lol

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I get disappointed when BJ loses because when he does you know he didnt put that much into the fight (aside from the GSP fights), and I do believe if he attacked Frankie Edgar a lot more he would have won, but thats not an excuse from me i know he still lost. You can see before the fight in his eyes whether hes gonna win or lose.

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For people to so cling on to the Forrest fight from 3 years ago is beyond pathetic. Like if the Forrest loss defines Shogun's whole career. Like if one loss> win after win and knock out after knockout over top notch high level opponents

 

this is the first thing im going to respond to because it is the first thing you wrote that is not incoherent rambling

 

so ppl clinging to anderson's loss to ryo chonan isnt pathetic right? or his DQ loss to okami? Anderson was beating *** up to that point' date=' while Shogun was slow as frack and consistently lost the fight against forrest

 

Look at someone like Rashad who actualy is over rated.

 

 

And did I forget he had FIVE SPLIT decision wins .

 

lol and you say looking back in the past is ludicrous while you did it just now

 

ROFL ARGUMENT IS VOID

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Same thing for Shogun' date=' I could care less what he did in Pride, because tha was then and this is now. Right now, he barely beat a washed up Coleman, choked out by forrest (which would happen again), and knocked out chuck liddell for a title shot! wow then i guess rich franklin should be in front of rashad

 

 

 

And now don't go "O anderson silva had his fanboys say he had a rib injury"

speaking for myself most people knew he would get taken down and controlled by fail sonnen and AS WE ALL KNEW he would get submitted!

 

[/quote']

 

 

No further need to prove anything in terms of your own ignorance... a real connaisseur is one who does not believe cheap conspiracy theories...

 

sorry to state, but that?s not your case...

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this is the first thing im going to respond to because it is the first thing you wrote that is not incoherent rambling

 

so ppl clinging to anderson's loss to ryo chonan isnt pathetic right? or his DQ loss to okami? Anderson was beating *** up to that point' date=' while Shogun was slow as frack and consistently lost the fight against forrest

 

 

 

lol and you say looking back in the past is ludicrous while you did it just now

 

ROFL ARGUMENT IS VOID[/quote']

 

Andersons loss to Okami is **** luck, a DQ that Okami knows doesnt mean a real win for him or a real loss for Silva. And as for Chonan, people are gonna hate because Silva didnt perfectly defend one of the best and sickest submissions ive ever seen. Newsflash, no one else would have gotten out of that either.

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this is the first thing im going to respond to because it is the first thing you wrote that is not incoherent rambling

 

so ppl clinging to anderson's loss to ryo chonan isnt pathetic right? or his DQ loss to okami? Anderson was beating *** up to that point' date=' while Shogun was slow as frack and consistently lost the fight against forrest

 

 

 

lol and you say looking back in the past is ludicrous while you did it just now

 

ROFL ARGUMENT IS VOID[/quote']

 

Just like my other points you avoided your completely missing the point.

 

You discredit Shogun's performances with non sense.

 

So I'm showing you how eazy it is to discredit anyone.

 

And I know you like Rashad. S**t and Rashad 's truly consistent dog s**t performances makes him eazy to discredit

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Andersons loss to Okami is **** luck' date=' a DQ that Okami knows doesnt mean a real win for him or a real loss for Silva. And as for Chonan, people are gonna hate because Silva didnt perfectly defend one of the best and sickest submissions ive ever seen. Newsflash, no one else would have gotten out of that either.[/quote']

 

Yep, its crazy that Silva lost a fight in which he knocked the other guy out.

 

Chonan pulled off the upset and got the submission victory.

 

Forrest pulled off the gigantic upset and got the submission victory.

 

I don't hold it against Anderson or Mauricio. Thats just one loss in a sea of wins they have.

 

I also believe both would destroy Chonan and Forrest in rematches today

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Your whole OP is nothing but true incoherent rambling.

 

Shogun won the first against Forrest.

 

A healthly Rashad lost the first.

 

Forrest best Rashad up far far worse then he beat Shogun.

 

Again' date=' just like my other points you avoided your completely missing the point.

 

You discredit Shogun's performances with non sense.

 

So I'm showing you how eazy it is to discredit anyone.

 

And I know you like Rashad. S**t and Rashad 's truly consistent dog s**t performances makes him eazy to discredit[/quote']

 

What are you talking about? Forrest choked out Shogun... theres no way you can take that at Shogun winning, he tapped.

 

And a healthy Rashad beat Forrest Griffin in a 3rd round TKO... theres no way you can that as Forrest winning, he got TKOd

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What are you talking about? Forrest choked out Shogun... theres no way you can take that at Shogun winning' date=' he tapped.

 

And a healthy Rashad beat Forrest Griffin in a 3rd round TKO... theres no way you can that as Forrest winning, he got TKOd[/quote']

 

I spent a thread talking to this guy, there is no reasoning. There is only: SHOGUN IS THE BEST. ANY LOSSES DONT COUNT CUZ HE WASNT FEELING GOOD

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What are you talking about? Forrest choked out Shogun... theres no way you can take that at Shogun winning' date=' he tapped.

 

And a healthy Rashad beat Forrest Griffin in a 3rd round TKO... theres no way you can that as Forrest winning, he got TKOd[/quote']

 

Its not that black and white.

 

You can win ugly and at the same time lose impressivley.

 

Rashad won and Shogun did't. That's all there is to it, but if you watch the performances in their entirety. A healthly Rashad was looking worse than an injuried Shogun heading in to the third round

 

Ignoring the finishes of both fights

 

Rashad was getting beat the F up on the feet for TWO rounds. Forrest Griffin of all people even rocked him at the end of the second.

 

Rashad was down TWO rounds to none heading in to the third.

 

Where as Shogun won the first round according to fightmetric.

 

And in the second round took Forrest down and executed him with an elbow.

 

Who did more heading in to the third?

 

(And Shogun was injuried and gassed out while Rashad was healthy.)

 

Now here's how things went down in the final third round of both fights.

 

Forrest the under dog fighting the fight of his life choked out an exhausted Shogun.

 

Where as Forrest the champ with a sizeable lead over Rashad gets too comfortable and gets caught against Rashad in a somewhat lucky finish.

 

Do you understand now?

 

p.s If Forrest Griffin had any type of power Rashad would've been don't the first 2 rounds

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Ok' date=' this really has to be settled. A lot of people have used this line on these forums and think its an automatic argument winner when in reality it has no freaking business being in any intelligent MMA discussion ever.

 

 

"If he was 100%, he would have murdered (insert fighter)"

 

a variation on this is "O it depends on which (insert fighter (usually shogun or bj penn)) shows up, if the right one does then its all over"

 

Fact is, nobody gives a crap about your 100% if you don't bring it in the octagon on the [u']the day of your fight[/u]! and as for BJ, all i ever hear from his fans is O, if the guy who faced diego/sherk/florian shows up, no one is stopping him. obviously not, because frankie stopped him when BJ said he was training hard, and yet still some people say he wasn't 100%

 

Same thing for Shogun, I could care less what he did in Pride, because tha was then and this is now. Right now, he barely beat a washed up Coleman, choked out by forrest (which would happen again), and knocked out chuck liddell for a title shot! wow then i guess rich franklin should be in front of rashad

 

 

 

And now don't go "O anderson silva had his fanboys say he had a rib injury"

speaking for myself most people knew he would get taken down and controlled by fail sonnen and AS WE ALL KNEW he would get submitted!

 

Discuss why both Penn and Shogun fanboys gotta step off and recognize thx

 

I agree that if you win you win, but there are certain things to consider leading up to the fight that factor in

 

BJ is the worst about it. He doesn't train like he should, but that's on his *** for being a lazy *****. I will never make and excuses for his ***. The only time it could legitimately be said is in the second Hughes fight where he was winning the whole fight, the broke a rib. Every other time its a ***** made excuse

 

With Shogun its different. Dudes knee had to be reconstructed for god sake. By all rights, he should not have even been in the cage with Griffin that night which is evident by him blowing out his knee again during the fight. He wasn't completely healed, but it was his debut and he didn't want to let his fans down.

 

Then after ANOTHER surgery, he goes into the Coleman fight without being able to train properly because of the knee. A fight he still won BTW. THESE are not excuses, they are legit reasons for his performance. There is a reason he looks like himself again since the Liddlell fight until now.......He's in top form again!

 

And thinking Forrest would ever come close to beating Shogun when he isn't hobbled is retarded. It took him 3 rounds to do it injured for god sakes. He'd be destroyed. It would be a repeat of the Silva fight.....only far more brutal

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Shogun fans twist the truth to make him look better. I even think someone is using mma math to show why shogun is going to beat rashad. Desperate much?

 

I brought up Rashad's terrible performance against Forrest regardless if he ended up wining.

 

Someone then responded "what are you talking about Forrest choked out Shogun"

 

"Rashad finished Forrest"...

 

Well yeah I KNOW but that's not the point.

 

 

And Rua vs Forrest / Rashad vs Forrest are all irrelevant to the now, the present.

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I agree that if you win you win' date=' but there are certain things to consider leading up to the fight that factor in

 

BJ is the worst about it. He doesn't train like he should, but that's on his *** for being a lazy *****. I will never make and excuses for his ***. [b']The only time it could legitimately be said is in the second Hughes fight where he was winning the whole fight, the broke a rib. Every other time its a ***** made excuse[/b]

 

With Shogun its different. Dudes knee had to be reconstructed for god sake. By all rights, he should not have even been in the cage with Griffin that night which is evident by him blowing out his knee again during the fight. He wasn't completely healed, but it was his debut and he didn't want to let his fans down.

 

Then after ANOTHER surgery, he goes into the Coleman fight without being able to train properly because of the knee. A fight he still won BTW. THESE are not excuses, they are legit reasons for his performance. There is a reason he looks like himself again since the Liddlell fight until now.......He's in top form again!

 

And thinking Forrest would ever come close to beating Shogun when he isn't hobbled is retarded. It took him 3 rounds to do it injured for god sakes. He'd be destroyed. It would be a repeat of the Silva fight.....only far more brutal

 

Not to change the subject of the thread, but what you said about the Penn vs Hughes fight, is what really intrigues me about this third meeting.

If Hughes outclasses Penn for the entire fight, BJ may want to consider retirement.

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Not to change the subject of the thread' date=' but what you said about the Penn vs Hughes fight, is what really intrigues me about this third meeting.

If Hughes outclasses Penn for the entire fight, BJ may want to consider retirement.[/quote']

I don't want to change the subject either but>>> I predict and want Hughes to win this fight but I can't help thinking it's only a 3 round fight. Surely the lazy fighter who doesn't like to train can go three rounds.

 

This fight is more even than what people like to believe.

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you would have thought that shogun would have worked on his conditioning' date=' cardio and HIS WILL TO NEVER TO GIVE UP AND QUIT IN A FIGHT like he did with girffin, but i guess 0/3 ain't bad when he faced coleman[/quote']

 

You are an idiot.

 

It was Shogun's heart alone that kept him fighting up until the third round with his injuries and exhaustion.

 

He injuried his knee worse in the fight and still kept pushing forward.

 

Even Forrest gassed from the pace of the fight

 

Shogun got caught in the choke and did the smart thing.

 

Silva has tapped in his career too, so has a majority of fighters that have been submitted. What's your point?

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You are an idiot.

 

It was Shogun's heart alone that kept him fighting up until the third round with his injuries and exhaustion.

 

He injuried his knee worse in the fight and still kept pushing forward.

 

Even Forrest kind of gassed out from the pace of the fight

 

Shogun got caught in the choke and did the smart thing.

 

Silva has tapped in his career too' date=' so has a majority of fighters that have been submitted. What's your point?[/quote']

 

you would think his heart would have told him to work on his cardio for the coleman fight, apparently not

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you would think his heart would have told him to work on his cardio for the coleman fight' date=' apparently not[/quote']

 

Where you aware of Shogun's injury? Did you know Shogun stayed determined and finished Coleman in the third?

 

Shogun is a class act tho and never made any excuses for this or the Griffin fight. He said he was ready for Coleman. Gave Coleman props and then apologized to the fans for the performance. Shogun then promised us that he would come back better then ever. And boy did Shogun keep his promise! Unlike 80% of the fighters who constantly disappoint and make excuses

 

*Liddell fight was amazing, Machida fight was far greater, and the rematch was pure awesome!*

 

Shogun kept the promise to us and did not disappoint again. How could you not love a dude like that?

 

Through all the bad Shogun stayed positive and focused, and with a stong desire and will to succeed he over came everything and blew away everyone's expectations

 

How many fighters recover from the injury he had to win the belt in the fashion he did by knocking out the hands down, at the time, greatest talented fighter of his division in Machida?

 

 

Seriously, how could you not cheer for a dude like Shogun? Seriously

 

-All class

 

-All heart

 

-Respectful, humble, handsome

 

-Supremely gifted and talented with the consistent amazing performances to back it up

 

-Exciting unique style

 

-Over came great adversity to be where he is at now

 

-Continues to stay humble and hungry

 

It's sad that people can even hate such a dude like Shogun. They have no ******* heart. Thet are disgusting human beings IMO.

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I don't want to change the subject either but>>> I predict and want Hughes to win this fight but I can't help thinking it's only a 3 round fight. Surely the lazy fighter who doesn't like to train can go three rounds.

 

This fight is more even than what people like to believe.

 

Even Hughes admits that Penn beat him convincingly in their first fight.

Anybody with a working set of eyes (or even ONE working eye, for that matter) could see that Penn was beating his **** for the first two rounds of their second fight.

 

Penn SHOULD have this fight in the bag. If he doesn't, it's time to hang 'em up.

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How on this earth can anyone not live Shogun?

 

See this is where you are mixed up. Most people actually DO like Shogun.

 

Most people, however, can like a fighter and still admit a fault. Guys like you who are so far up Shogun's *** that his teeth block your view are the problem with Shogun.

 

He loses to Forrest and it was only because he was hurt! Forrest is a bum and would get wrecked today!

 

Shogun is a humble and likable guy, but utter idiots like you ruin his image.

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See this is where you are mixed up. Most people actually DO like Shogun.

 

Most people' date=' however, can like a fighter and still admit a fault. Guys like you who are so far up Shogun's *** that his teeth block your view are the problem with Shogun.

 

He loses to Forrest and it was only because he was hurt! Forrest is a bum and would get wrecked today!

 

Shogun is a humble and likable guy, but utter idiots like you ruin his image.[/quote']

 

+1.

Same goes for Fedor.

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Ok' date=' this really has to be settled. A lot of people have used this line on these forums and think its an automatic argument winner when in reality it has no freaking business being in any intelligent MMA discussion ever.

 

 

"If he was 100%, he would have murdered (insert fighter)"

 

a variation on this is "O it depends on which (insert fighter (usually shogun or bj penn)) shows up, if the right one does then its all over"

 

Fact is, nobody gives a crap about your 100% if you don't bring it in the octagon on the [u']the day of your fight[/u]! and as for BJ, all i ever hear from his fans is O, if the guy who faced diego/sherk/florian shows up, no one is stopping him. obviously not, because frankie stopped him when BJ said he was training hard, and yet still some people say he wasn't 100%

 

Same thing for Shogun, I could care less what he did in Pride, because tha was then and this is now. Right now, he barely beat a washed up Coleman, choked out by forrest (which would happen again), and knocked out chuck liddell for a title shot! wow then i guess rich franklin should be in front of rashad

 

 

 

And now don't go "O anderson silva had his fanboys say he had a rib injury"

speaking for myself most people knew he would get taken down and controlled by fail sonnen and AS WE ALL KNEW he would get submitted!

 

Discuss why both Penn and Shogun fanboys gotta step off and recognize thx

 

Good post. Except it is true, if Shogun could stay healthy, he WOULD rape pretty much everyone. And BJ is never focused, so that argument is void. :)

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If a fighter shows up to the octagon and loses there are no legitimate excuses to diminish the loss. Not the fighter being sick, not fighting out of his natural weight, not "oh he just got caught", not "oh he would murder him in a rematch" or "he was robbed", etc. that nonsense is nothing but the whining and sniveling of loser fans, and somtimes fighters *cough* BJ *cough*...if you let it go to the judges and you lose to f'ing bad. If you show up sick, too f'ing bad. If you're too lazy to cut weight so you're forced to fight bigger opponents, too f'ing bad.

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See this is where you are mixed up. Most people actually DO like Shogun.

 

Most people' date=' however, can like a fighter and still admit a fault. Guys like you who are so far up Shogun's *** that his teeth block your view are the problem with Shogun.

 

He loses to Forrest and it was only because he was hurt! Forrest is a bum and would get wrecked today!

 

Shogun is a humble and likable guy, but utter idiots like you ruin his image.[/quote']

 

Quit quoting selective parts of my post !

 

See, that's dumb.

 

The fans are fans. A fighter has no control over his fans. ALL fighters have all types of fans.

 

1.For Shogun fans to be called out exclusively is insane.

 

2.For you to base your opinion of a fighter off a couple dumb fans is insane

 

Who really lets a stranger over the internet turn them into a hater?

 

Who cares and enjoy that fighter!

 

Really It's the haters like you that fail to understand that injurys affect performances regardless of the excuses you guys come up with.

 

Shogun in no way was even fighting close to 50%

 

Not taking anything away from Forrest. He won that night

 

 

But for people to judge Shogun soley on that performance is unfair.

 

And to the haters who won't let go of that fight its pathetic

 

Like if that loss overturns everything else Shogun has accomplished.

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Its not that black and white.

 

You can win ugly and at the same time lose impressivley.

 

Rashad won and Shogun did't. That's all there is to it' date=' but if you watch the performances in their entirety. A healthly Rashad was looking worse than an injuried Shogun heading in to the third round

 

Ignoring the finishes of both fights

 

Rashad was getting beat the F up on the feet for TWO rounds. Forrest Griffin of all people even rocked him at the end of the second.

 

Rashad was down TWO rounds to none heading in to the third.

 

Where as Shogun won the first round according to fightmetric.

 

And in the second round took Forrest down and executed him with an elbow.

 

Who did more heading in to the third?

 

(And Shogun was injuried and gassed out while Rashad was healthy.)

 

Now here's how things went down in the final third round of both fights.

 

Forrest the under dog fighting the fight of his life choked out an exhausted Shogun.

 

Where as Forrest the champ with a sizeable lead over Rashad gets too comfortable and gets caught against Rashad in a somewhat lucky finish.

 

Do you understand now?

 

p.s If Forrest Griffin had any type of power Rashad would've been don't the first 2 rounds[/quote']

 

So youre saying when there is a knockout or sub the judges should tally the scores up until the knockout or said sub but not count the knockout and then, the winner will be declared by the judges scores. That is a really good system, i gotta hand it to ya. Grade A.

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So youre saying when there is a knockout or sub the judges should tally the scores up until the knockout or said sub but not count the knockout and then' date=' the winner will be declared by the judges scores. That is a really good system, i gotta hand it to ya. Grade A.[/quote']

 

So Machida won the second fight against Shogun?!!!

I love this system!

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