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Is Greg Jackson to blame for lacklustre fights?

ShayneSmithMMA

By ShayneSmithMMA,
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ShayneSmithMMA

ShayneSmithMMA

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Dana stated after 122 that he believes that Greg Jackson is partly to blame for Marquart's loss and i agree with him. There's no way in the world that Marquart won the first 2 rounds and he and Jackson had to know that, but Marquart came out in the third and looking awful and applied zero pressure. It seems to me like Jackson is okay with decisions and doesn't care about his fighters finishing fights. Bones Jones is really the only fighter in that camp that goes out and looks for the finish every fight but we've even seen his game change to a lot more ground work since joining Jackson's. No fan wants to see boring decisions and he isnt helping his fighters by not telling them to pressure and go for the finish...

 

Thoughts?

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MMA_Limburg

MMA_Limburg

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Dana stated after 122 that he believes that Greg Jackson is partly to blame for Marquart's loss and i agree with him. There's no way in the world that Marquart won the first 2 rounds and he and Jackson had to know that' date=' but Marquart came out in the third and looking awful and applied zero pressure. It seems to me like Jackson is okay with decisions and doesn't care about his fighters finishing fights. Bones Jones is really the only fighter in that camp that goes out and looks for the finish every fight but we've even seen his game change to a lot more ground work since joining Jackson's. No fan wants to see boring decisions and he isnt helping his fighters by not telling them to pressure and go for the finish...

 

Thoughts?[/quote']

 

Most (good) fighters in that gym have a wrestling base, so most of the time the gameplan is the takedown and holding the opponent down. Nate got reversed in the first round in that fight, maybe he got scared to go for a TD after that. In the other rounds i got the idea Nate didn?t find his range to strike with Okami, this because Okami was jabbing the **** out of Nate if he got close enough to strike

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PuppetsAndHolyWars

PuppetsAndHolyWars

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Will do haha' date=' I like how you have Vemola in your fav LHW haha, he looked like a beast on Saturday but then again it was against Petruzelli, i can't wait to see him fight someone good and see how he holds up![/quote']

 

That was the first time I saw him fight and as soon as I saw his picture I knew he was gonna be a crazy ruskie

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ShayneSmithMMA

ShayneSmithMMA

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Greg Jackson is one of the best trainers in the MMA world' date=' sure his game plans for fighters may not always be exciting but 95% of the time fighters trained by Jackson win.[/quote']

 

I just wanna know what his gameplan for Marquart was because he didnt seem to be doing anything, He went for the takedown in round 1 and late in round 3 but really didnt do anything else. I dont know if Jackson thought Nate was winning and didnt need to risk anything in the third it just seems odd that Nate didnt push the pace.

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MMA_Limburg

MMA_Limburg

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I just wanna know what his gameplan for Marquart was because he didnt seem to be doing anything' date=' He went for the takedown in round 1 and late in round 3 but really didnt do anything else. I dont know if Jackson thought Nate was winning and didnt need to risk anything in the third it just seems odd that Nate didnt push the pace.[/quote']

 

Nate tried to counter Okami?s jab, that didn?t work out the way he wanted it to. Okami reversed and stuffed his TD?s, so that wasn?t the answer. My guess is the gameplan was to soften Okami up standing, take him down and grind out a win. In the 3rd round Nate was clearly out of options.

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Labyrinthic

Labyrinthic

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Nate tried to counter Okami?s jab' date=' that didn?t work out the way he wanted it to. Okami reversed and stuffed his TD?s, so that wasn?t the answer. My guess is the gameplan was to soften Okami up standing, take him down and grind out a win. In the 3rd round Nate was clearly out of options.[/quote']

 

Heb je honger?

 

limburgse-vlaaien.jpg

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Claymore831406051745

Claymore831406051745

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Dana stated after 122 that he believes that Greg Jackson is partly to blame for Marquart's loss and i agree with him. There's no way in the world that Marquart won the first 2 rounds and he and Jackson had to know that' date=' but Marquart came out in the third and looking awful and applied zero pressure. It seems to me like Jackson is okay with decisions and doesn't care about his fighters finishing fights. Bones Jones is really the only fighter in that camp that goes out and looks for the finish every fight but we've even seen his game change to a lot more ground work since joining Jackson's. No fan wants to see boring decisions and he isnt helping his fighters by not telling them to pressure and go for the finish...

 

Thoughts?[/quote']

 

You have to put a lot of the so called "Blame" on the fighters themselves IMO (not that I even have he right to have one as I myself do not step into a cage to get bloody), but Dana's comments regarding the corner not creating a sense of urgency has real validity. Maybe he'd have swung for the fences had they told him he was losing the fight, even if they werent so sure he was. Get him fired up. Nate did not have the look of someone who'd do any and everything to win that fight. He looked afraid of doing anything, but countering. Nates right hand has done him some good in the past, but short of a few nice connects, it wasn't landing. The corner was telling him to throw kicks, which would have really made a differnence. It was good advice that Nate didn't follow. So...Its on you Nate. You choked.

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skullbone

skullbone

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I don't know who's fault it really is, but the boring fight phenomenon is real. Some fighters are just too scared to take a risk. Sometimes it turns out to be a good strategy for a decision win, but everytime it makes for a "boring" fight. I don't blame anyone for fighting a smart fight, but I do reserve the right to not really want to watch them do it ever again. Call me greedy or demanding, but I like to watch guys lay it all on the line and bang it out. That being said, Okami showed something simple and effective that many skilled strikers neglect; a steady, crisp jab. It's an effective and often overlooked tool. I liked seeing that.

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Furiousmat

Furiousmat

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Dana stated after 122 that he believes that Greg Jackson is partly to blame for Marquart's loss and i agree with him. There's no way in the world that Marquart won the first 2 rounds and he and Jackson had to know that' date=' but Marquart came out in the third and looking awful and applied zero pressure. It seems to me like Jackson is okay with decisions and doesn't care about his fighters finishing fights. Bones Jones is really the only fighter in that camp that goes out and looks for the finish every fight but we've even seen his game change to a lot more ground work since joining Jackson's. No fan wants to see boring decisions and he isnt helping his fighters by not telling them to pressure and go for the finish...

 

Thoughts?[/quote']

the jackson camp has tons of great fighters so I wouldn't go so far as to blame it on them everytime one of the fighters loses a fight. Responsibility is on the fighter himself to do his job. Look what happened with Condit vs Macdonald. What about that?

 

You guys seem to stick with the idea that the jackson camp is only about decision just because St-Pierre hasn't been able to finish his last fights, although the certainly tried, and because of Rashad Evans. But at the same time you forget all the other fighters that train at this camp and perform well. Jackson's camp isn't all about wrestling it's about game planing.

 

If they have a guy like Anderson Silva they wouldn't tell him to wrestle I garantee you. Do you think they told Carwin to wrestle against Brock? They adapt to each fighter but somehow many guys just stick with the bad performances and forget all the rest.

 

And you talk about Jones. What you may not realize is that although Jones has some flashy elbows and ridiculous reach, his striking isn't that good. Tons of newbs get caught in the hype just because he finishes with a spectacular back elbow. Jones swings wildly with every part of his body that is true but he isn't a technician on the feet. Not yet. His GnP is a lot more dangerous and Jackson is good at keeping their fighters down to earth.

 

When a fighter happens to get a couple wins by KO he starts believing his own hype and thinks he's a good stand up fighter. Look what happened to Rashad. Jackson works on reminding them what is their strength and to play the odds at all time no matter what and that is a ****ing good strategy.

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OranJuice

OranJuice

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I just wanna know what his gameplan for Marquart was because he didnt seem to be doing anything' date=' He went for the takedown in round 1 and late in round 3 but really didnt do anything else. I dont know if Jackson thought Nate was winning and didnt need to risk anything in the third it just seems odd that Nate didnt push the pace.[/quote']

 

Wittman kept telling him to counter and let Okami come in at him. But you don't counter Okami. Okami holds the center of the Octagon but never really commits in the exchanges. He jabs and keeps his range. Jackson wasn't even in his corner.

 

There was no sense of urgency on Nate's part and he never got the jump on Okami.

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Chuck42

Chuck42

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Greg Jackson is no more to blame for lackluster fights than the originator of Wrestling.

 

Greg Jackson puts together a plan for his fighter that will put them in the best situation to win.

 

Everyone jumps on him becasue people are happy with GSP and Evans gameplans. People forget that he also trains Carwin, Bones Jones, Mardquart, Condit, and Diego. These fighters as some of the most exciting fighters in the world and dont have a LnP mentality or fight style.

 

People need to get off Jackson like he created the LnP or soemthing.

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ThePredictor

ThePredictor

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I don't think Greg Jackson is ruining MMA. But if he is instilling decision tactics in his fighters, he could be hurting them directly. I know in the Marquardt/Okami fight the winner was promised a title shot. Maybe its a bad idea for the UFC to make those types of promises (even though us fans like to know what the hell is going on) because it might give the fighters the 'I don't wanna lose' rather than 'this is a must-win' mentality. As far as Greg Jackson tactics, I think after big decisions like Marquardt/Okami, most of his fighters will have an even better understanding how important it can be to win decisively. Regardless, the guy is a great coach.

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Superbeast28

Superbeast28

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As that ForrestGriffinFan guy says many Greg Jackson Fighters have finished matches so its hard to say whether its Greg's gameplans or the fighters. But yeah the gameplans definitely affect Nate Marquadt Vs Chael Sonnen and Nate Vs Okami. Some greg jackson fighters are strong enough the gameplan doesnt take away from their ability to win others the gameplan definitely controls their performances thaT day.

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badsmel

badsmel

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Dana stated after 122 that he believes that Greg Jackson is partly to blame for Marquart's loss and i agree with him. There's no way in the world that Marquart won the first 2 rounds and he and Jackson had to know that' date=' but Marquart came out in the third and looking awful and applied zero pressure. It seems to me like Jackson is okay with decisions and doesn't care about his fighters finishing fights. Bones Jones is really the only fighter in that camp that goes out and looks for the finish every fight but we've even seen his game change to a lot more ground work since joining Jackson's. No fan wants to see boring decisions and he isnt helping his fighters by not telling them to pressure and go for the finish...

 

Thoughts?[/quote']

 

Agree completely. I think the problem lies in training how not to lose a fight too much and not enough training on how to win.

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Googlebright

Googlebright

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He was not trying cause his corner had informed him that he was winning inbetween rounds

 

Misinformation is worse then no information at all.

 

This is my biggest issue with Greg Jackson, and this is really more about cornering than his training methods or game plans. He's done this before, where he tells his guy that he is winning and encourages him not to take any chances in the next round. The Guillard/Stephens match should have been a stand-up war, but after two rounds of bouncing in and out and throwing the occasional jab, he tells Guillard that he just fought a great round and to keep it up because he is winning. Same with Marquardt (though I guess it was Wittman cornering that fight, Sportsnet didn't show any of the round breaks so I couldn't tell), they tell him he is ahead after two rounds.

 

Whether it's purposeful misinformation or just stupid advice, they need to stop telling their fighters that they are winning. Too many times the judges render decisions that surprise you. You can't go into the third round expecting to coast your way to a decision victory. It's boring for the fans and can cost his fighter the win. I guess urgency doesn't fit into Greg's game plans, it's too risky. But sometimes you need to take risks. Throw the ball on fourth and long, pull your goalie with two minutes left and you are down by two, put on the hit and run, etc. Don't just go quietly into the night because you are afraid of losing spectacularly. If his fighter is losing, or even in a close fight, going into the third round, he should be encouraging his fighters to leave it all in the Octagon and either finish the fight or leave no doubt in anyone's mind as to who won the fight.

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Sixshoota

Sixshoota

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I wouldn't say it is all Jackson's fault, a lot of it is on the fighters for not executing. Greg can't make Nate throw punches only Nate can. Greg Jackson can be really good though too, case in point: Condit vs MacDonald. That was awesome coaching and he lit a fire under Condit, and what did Condit do? He comes out and stops MacDonald in the last round.

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Gibberish

Gibberish

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I wouldn't say it is all Jackson's fault' date=' a lot of it is on the fighters for not executing. Greg can't make Nate throw punches only Nate can. Greg Jackson can be really good though too, case in point: Condit vs MacDonald. [b']That was awesome coaching and he lit a fire under Condit[/b], and what did Condit do? He comes out and stops MacDonald in the last round.

 

you guys fail to realize that all greg does is threaten with vaseline. condit happens to be terrified of vaseline and chooses to not walk the same path as gsp. gsp has became one with the vaseline.

 

some people eat peanut butter and jelly. gsp eats peanut butter and vaseline.

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Little_Kang

Little_Kang

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imo, Greg Jackson is the best coach but the worst stragetist.

 

What I mean is that Greg will be able to improve you on your weak area's and strength your strong area's BUT coming up with proper stragety to fight with isn't his strong suit. He seems to prefer his fight to stay safe then enter a potentially dangerous situation. I think it's better to employ his to his fighters strength. example, Nate is powerful striker/good grappler and strong competitor, Nate should have been pressuring Yushin not the other way around.

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ForrestGriffinFan101

ForrestGriffinFan101

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you guys fail to realize that all greg does is threaten with vaseline. condit happens to be terrified of vaseline and chooses to not walk the same path as gsp. gsp has became one with the vaseline.

 

some people eat peanut butter and jelly. gsp eats peanut butter and vaseline.

 

Phil Nurse wiped grease on GSP, not Jackson.

 

......facts> you

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