Machida/Rampage 1st round

[kyo_sa]

im sorry for yet another thread, but like i said when it happened, i would go back and watch this fight again and count it out. keep in mind this is not my opinion, this is what actually happened, and i suggest any of you who disagree with this post to do what i just did

 

i just watched it again and took notes..so here is the 1st round play by play

 

machida throws 5 leg kicks before rampage even throws anything. 2 of them are very powerful and spin rampage off his stance. on the 5th, rampage throws a 1-2 counter which doesnt land but backs machida up to the cage where they clinch

 

coming out rampage lands a nice uppercut

 

machida lands a hard body kick, a decent knee, then another hard body kick and ineffective 1-2 which again takes it to the cage where they clinch

 

before the round ends machida lands one more leg kick

 

 

now for any of you who say rampage won round 1, take your computer and throw it out the window. rampage literally did nothing in round 1 , and in fact barely threw anything, and landed only 1 clean punch

 

machida lands 9 clean shots and 4 of them are hard power shots. now that i have watched it again, i will now fully stand behind my position that the decision was total horse****

[theshaun333]

im sorry for yet another thread' date=' but like i said when it happened, i would go back and watch this fight again and count it out. keep in mind this is not my opinion, this is what actually happened, and i suggest any of you who disagree with this post to do what i just did

 

i just watched it again and took notes..so here is the 1st round play by play

 

machida throws 5 leg kicks before rampage even throws anything. 2 of them are very powerful and spin rampage off his stance. on the 5th, rampage throws a 1-2 counter which doesnt land but backs machida up to the cage where they clinch

 

coming out rampage lands a nice uppercut

 

machida lands a hard body kick, a decent knee, then another hard body kick and ineffective 1-2 which again takes it to the cage where they clinch

 

before the round ends machida lands one more leg kick

 

 

now for any of you who say rampage won round 1, take your computer and throw it out the window. rampage literally did nothing in round 1 , and in fact barely threw anything, and landed only 1 clean punch

 

machida lands 9 clean shots and 4 of them are hard power shots. now that i have watched it again, i will now fully stand behind my position that the decision was total horse****[/quote']

 

Now i have yet to watch it a second time, but i think your bias is leakin through a bit. Machidas kicks were not good ones, nor were they hard. He was landing them with his foot not his shin, because he didnt want to be anywhere near rampage. Rampage's leg moved in a ****** attempt to check the kick, which he has never been any good at. Letsnot forget the punches / knees to the body rampage got while in the clinch, and his general octagon control. Something machida fans rarely like to think about.

 

Put it this way. When machida fights a top fighter, if he doesnt finish the fight, chances are its going to be a controversial decision. Get used to it. Couple his fighting style with the current scoring system and this is what your going to get. Whats more important in a judges mind Punches landed or accuracy? He certainly never should get points for octagon control or aggressiveness. If somebody is chasing him around the ring for a round, but lands slightly less punches, who should win the round? He fights for points, and he is good at it. The problem with this is that its incredibly hard to judge his fights when they are even somewhat close rounds. Same problem with his last 2 opponents, and i suspect had the rashad fight gone all the way it woulda happened in that one also.

[Fulken]

Yea, Machida definitely had cleaner shots then Rampage in round 1. His also connected multiple times as Rampage pretty much hit him only one. I think Machida lost because of understanding of cage control is.

 

You know.. One guy stands in the middle and presses the fight.. supposedly he controls the action as his opponents is pressed to defend and counter by moving around the outer parts of the octagon. However, it was very obvious to everyone WHO HAD control during ALL 3 rounds. Machida's style in my opinion is very misunderstood by refs who should only judge boxing and NEVER get close to the octagon. Yea, he didn't press the action but he controlled it. Rampage never got close to doing anything to Machida who pretty much had multiple shots connect each time he countered.

 

Until new reffing systems are implemented this will keep happening. UFC really needs refs that are trained to only ref UFC events and understand what's going on in the ring.

[nizmo270r]

Not this again!!

 

Seen the fight heaps

 

Rampage won by SD

Machida should have been more aggressive in Rd 2

If Machida shown that he was in control he should have actually learned to move forward

 

Machida lost to himself

 

Rampage fought his fight to Machida

He didn't fall for that elusive BS

Why should staying on the backfoot demostrate octagon control

Newsflash: it doesn't

Maybe in karate tournaments it can work

But not in the OCTAGON

 

Thats why Rampage won

 

Just let it go

[kyo_sa]

Now i have yet to watch it a second time' date=' but i think your bias is leakin through a bit. Machidas kicks were not good ones, nor were they hard. He was landing them with his foot not his shin, because he didnt want to be anywhere near rampage. Rampage's leg moved in a ****** attempt to check the kick, which he has never been any good at. Letsnot forget the punches / knees to the body rampage got while in the clinch, and his general octagon control. Something machida fans rarely like to think about.

 

Put it this way. When machida fights a top fighter, if he doesnt finish the fight, chances are its going to be a controversial decision. Get used to it. Couple his fighting style with the current scoring system and this is what your going to get. He fights for points not for ko's.[/quote']

 

what did i say in the first sentence man, this isnt a bias, i dont care if machida won or lost. i like the guy but i like rampage too. i called it like it is, he threw 6 leg kicks in the first, 4 were like you described, 2 landed hard you hear the smack and see rampages whole leg swing out. im not making this up cuz im a machida fan...i know the guy is a tentative fighter but he just picks his shots and is capable with landing with some solid power, give him credit.

 

lol ...rampage did nothing in the clinch. you think elbowing machida in the thigh is something? he didnt even really control the octagon in the 1st. 2nd round for sure, machida does nothing but avoid and stay on the outside, but in the 1st hes engaging. and besides, it shouldnt matter AT ALL when the strikes landed is 9-2

[theshaun333]

what did i say in the first sentence man' date=' this isnt a bias, i dont care if machida won or lost. i like the guy but i like rampage too. i called it like it is, he threw 6 leg kicks in the first, 4 were like you described, 2 landed hard you hear the smack and see rampages whole leg swing out. im not making this up cuz im a machida fan...i know the guy is a tentative fighter but he just picks his shots and is capable with landing with some solid power, give him credit.

 

lol ...rampage did nothing in the clinch. you think elbowing machida in the thigh is something? he didnt even really control the octagon in the 1st. 2nd round for sure, machida does nothing but avoid and stay on the outside, but in the 1st hes engaging. and besides, it shouldnt matter AT ALL when the strikes landed is 9-2[/quote']

 

Calm down buddy. Just because you say ur not biased i should assume so? That statement is said so many times on this forum, forgive me if im not buyin it. Also hearing a smack doesnt mean the kick is good.. its actually the opposite. When you hear a smack its because the foot is slapping on the other fighter. When you hear a thud its a good kick.

Now keep in mind im not trying to debate you as to whats worth more a ****** kick or a short punch to the body in the clinch. You just happened to leave that out on your little summary of the round. Which i found interesting since you had literally counted the number of kicks / punches machida landed.

 

You dont have to agree with the decision, but its the right one. You dont win decisions backpedaling and throwing weak kicks. I dont care if he landed the same amount or more punches and kicks. The way the scoring system is atm he lost the fight. Period.

[Hendoforpresident]

octagon control and aggression

 

machida cant win by backin away the whole time

[BType13x2]

do you realize that judges don't really give a **** about leg kicks right?

[nizmo270r]

only leg kicks that do damage are counted

 

The kicks Forrest did to Rampage were counted as they did damage

Machida was only kicking with his feet so it did nothing to Page (except the 1st kick)

[kyo_sa]

lol///so let me get this right

 

if you try to hit a guy 10 times, but only hit him once, but he hits you 4 times out of 6 tries, you win because you had more attempts?

 

how is this sport ever going to be up there with other pro sports with such retarded logic in scoring

 

thats like if brazil plays USA in soccer, and has the ball for 70 minutes, yet USA scores 2 goals in those other 20 minutes...brazil still wins??

[kyo_sa]

lol///so let me get this right

 

if you try to hit a guy 10 times, but only hit him once, but he hits you 4 times out of 6 tries, you win because you had more attempts?

 

how is this sport ever going to be up there with other pro sports with such retarded logic in scoring

 

thats like if brazil plays USA in soccer, and has the ball for 70 minutes, yet USA scores 2 goals in those other 20 minutes...brazil still wins??

[Hendoforpresident]

do you realize that judges don't really give a **** about leg kicks right?

 

this

 

ask shogun, he knows all about it

[BType13x2]

only leg kicks that do damage are counted

 

The kicks Forrest did to Rampage were counted as they did damage

 

Then why didn't Shgouns Leg kicks all 49 of them give him that fight? Lyoto was barely able to stand and was in a wheelchair for a week after the fight... That would lead me to believe that judges don't care about leg kicks and only recognize body and head strikes.

 

In which case Lyoto landed 38 to 33.

 

As for the Machida Rampage fight:

 

Head and Body shots Rampage: 42 to 27

 

Legs Rampage: 28 to 26

 

Now that doesn't even tell the real story of the fight on either account as Rampage was both the Aggressor and landed more but he certainly landed maybe 5 or 6 significant strikes the whole fight and Lyoto Had 5 or 6 strikes the whole fight with 1 leading to a knockdown and top position.

[Hendoforpresident]

all your arguing and stats dont matter

rampage won

 

dana himself said he had rampage winnin 2 rounds to 1 and he runs the ****

thats all that matters

[BType13x2]

all your arguing and stats dont matter

rampage won

 

dana himself said he had rampage winnin 2 rounds to 1 and he runs the ****

thats all that matters

 

I gave the fight to Rampage personally and I am glad he won. But Dana whites opinion doesn't mean **** honestly its what the Judges appointed by the athletic commission say that goes. Unless you buy into the BS that Dana bribed the judges. But in this case it wasn't a Robbery as much as it was Machida's fault for showing us what he could have done in round 3 but chose not to for whatever stupid reason in his head for the first 2 rounds.

[Hendoforpresident]

I gave the fight to Rampage personally and I am glad he won. But Dana whites opinion doesn't mean **** honestly its what the Judges appointed by the athletic commission say that goes. Unless you buy into the BS that Dana bribed the judges. But in this case it wasn't a Robbery as much as it was Machida's fault for showing us what he could have done in round 3 but chose not to for whatever stupid reason in his head for the first 2 rounds.

 

i dont buy into any BS bout bribary

just tellin the idiots that think machida won that they are stupid

[BType13x2]

i dont buy into any BS bout bribary

just tellin the idiots that think machida won that they are stupid

 

Exactly I don't think anyone Bribed the judges in this case and if you had to give a winner for round 1 it would just slightly go to Rampage and Round 2 was definitely Rampages. See the fight last night my first impression of the 3rd round was it could have been a 10-8 for Machida which would have given us as draw. But then I watched the fight a few more times today and I had to agree that it was a 10-9 Machida in the third, I even dismissed his armbar attempt because it led to him nearly getting slammed. Yes he obtained 2 dominant positions but essentially did nothing with them. He had an effective flurry but Rampage stormed right back and caused Lyoto to retreat. So it was a 10-9 Machida maing the fight a 29- 28 Rampage.

[kyo_sa]

I gave the fight to Rampage personally and I am glad he won. But Dana whites opinion doesn't mean **** honestly its what the Judges appointed by the athletic commission say that goes. Unless you buy into the BS that Dana bribed the judges. But in this case it wasn't a Robbery as much as it was Machida's fault for showing us what he could have done in round 3 but chose not to for whatever stupid reason in his head for the first 2 rounds.

 

na dana didnt bribe anyone, thats ridiculous, and ive said a few times its machidas own fault. my big problem with all this is less what actually happened...since i like both guys...and more in the actual scoring, whos doing it, and what they are counting.

 

to me in the sport of fighting, avoiding everything and landing when you want to is amazing and should get more credit. people want to see bonnar griffin every time. now im not totally defending machida coz like you said, he went after it hard in the 3rd and showed what he can do, so its his own fault for not turning it on sooner...HOWEVER.....i do still have a major qualm that if you clearly outstrike a guy you will still lose based on "aggression"...its totally fukn retarded in my books

 

leg kicks getting overlooked REALLY bugs me, shogun got screwed by that too. leg kicks hurt bad...take any good kicker and see him kick a normal guy in the leg and watch them crumble. i sometimes give it to my friends at like 10% when we r playing around and they are like jesus that hurts so much.... and to those of you saying oh it was his foot...machida is a karate guy...im tkd 3rd degree and tkd teaches with the foot as well...his feet are made of wood, go ask rampage if those hurt or not. and you can clearly see 2 of them were heavy and swung rampages leg. besides, its a strike. a strike landed is a strike landed, period.

[BType13x2]

na dana didnt bribe anyone' date=' thats ridiculous, and ive said a few times its machidas own fault. my big problem with all this is less what actually happened...since i like both guys...and more in the actual scoring, whos doing it, and what they are counting.

 

to me in the sport of fighting, avoiding everything and landing when you want to is amazing and should get more credit. people want to see bonnar griffin every time. now im not totally defending machida coz like you said, he went after it hard in the 3rd and showed what he can do, so its his own fault for not turning it on sooner...HOWEVER.....i do still have a major qualm that if you clearly outstrike a guy you will still lose based on "aggression"...its totally fukn retarded in my books

 

leg kicks getting overlooked REALLY bugs me, shogun got screwed by that too. leg kicks hurt bad...take any good kicker and see him kick a normal guy in the leg and watch them crumble. i sometimes give it to my friends at like 10% when we r playing around and they are like jesus that hurts so much.... and to those of you saying oh it was his foot...machida is a karate guy...im tkd 3rd degree and tkd teaches with the foot as well...his feet are made of wood, go ask rampage if those hurt or not. and you can clearly see 2 of them were heavy and swung rampages leg. besides, its a strike. a strike landed is a strike landed, period.[/quote']

 

The thing is the argument can be made that he really didn't out strike him until the 3rd round. Rampage actually did land more Strikes on Lyoto. But Lyoto landed the more significant strikes. And this is my opinion here but if you can at will do what Lyoto did to Rampage in the 3rd round but you choose not to for the first 2 rounds, then your being stupid as a fighter. And when your fighting someone like Rampage who is notoriously hard to knockout and there is a good chance you are going to a decision and you know it from the very beginning you better damned well make sure you win more rounds then him. And Lyoto left it ambiguous so the defeat lies on his shoulders.

 

And on a night when someone actually lost due to leg strikes I think a light-bulb should have went off over every judges head at octagon side that would say, "Well holy **** I guess those are actually effective strikes." But even then Rampage landed more on Lyoto's legs then Lyoto did on his. But the effects were not obvious in that neither Rampage or Machida slowed down as a result of the leg kicks of their opponents. Where as with Shoguns kicks on Machida you could see the obvious results.

[kyo_sa]

The thing is the argument can be made that he really didn't out strike him until the 3rd round. Rampage actually did land more Strikes on Lyoto. But Lyoto landed the more significant strikes. And this is my opinion here but if you can at will do what Lyoto did to Rampage in the 3rd round but you choose not to for the first 2 rounds' date=' then your being stupid as a fighter. And when your fighting someone like Rampage who is notoriously hard to knockout and there is a good chance you are going to a decision and you know it from the very beginning you better damned well make sure you win more rounds then him. And Lyoto left it ambiguous so the defeat lies on his shoulders.

 

And on a night when someone actually lost due to leg strikes I think a light-bulb should have went off over every judges head at octagon side that would say, "Well holy **** I guess those are actually effective strikes." But even then Rampage landed more on Lyoto's legs then Lyoto did on his. But the effects were not obvious in that neither Rampage or Machida slowed down as a result of the leg kicks of their opponents. Where as with Shoguns kicks on Machida you could see the obvious results.[/quote']

 

well im arguing that he clearly DID outstrike him in the first...and also you have to count what lands man. we cant just start counting only what obviously hurts a guy. every fight you see a guy eat punches in the face like they are nothing, does that mean they shouldnt count?

 

anyway i agree with everything else, lyoto can blame himself for respecting rampages power too much, if he had even gone after it just a BIT more in the first and left no doubt in anyones mind, he would have had it. hell he could have conceivably finished it, he had rampage in real trouble...especially on the ground, i have no idea why he didnt try to take it there until the 3rd. i was honestly half expecting a finish, or at best a decisive decision..he didnt go all out so he lost, that part is true, but ill maintain he should have 100% got the 1st and subsequently the decision

[ThE_KiNg_Of_ThE_rInG]

only leg kicks that do damage are counted

 

The kicks Forrest did to Rampage were counted as they did damage

Machida was only kicking with his feet so it did nothing to Page (except the 1st kick)

 

Really?? Only Leg kicks that do damage are counted huh?? Someone should rewatch shogun vs machida 1 and then tell us about leg kicks counting. Shogun got robbed.

 

I agree that Rampage won this fight and people need to except it and quit with their whining.

[seXXXpac]

Calm down buddy. Just because you say ur not biased i should assume so? That statement is said so many times on this forum' date=' forgive me if im not buyin it. [b']Also hearing a smack doesnt mean the kick is good.. its actually the opposite. When you hear a smack its because the foot is slapping on the other fighter[/b]. When you hear a thud its a good kick.

Now keep in mind im not trying to debate you as to whats worth more a ****** kick or a short punch to the body in the clinch. You just happened to leave that out on your little summary of the round. Which i found interesting since you had literally counted the number of kicks / punches machida landed.

 

You dont have to agree with the decision, but its the right one. You dont win decisions backpedaling and throwing weak kicks. I dont care if he landed the same amount or more punches and kicks. The way the scoring system is atm he lost the fight. Period.

 

So you must believe Lyoto beat Shogun, right?

[murdertito]

are u kidding me those legs kicks where so weak my 1 year old girl kicks harder then that rampage controlled the octogon and was the dominent one on the clinch its not all about strikes learn your mma buddy

[kyo_sa]

are u kidding me those legs kicks where so weak my 1 year old girl kicks harder then that rampage controlled the octogon and was the dominent one on the clinch its not all about strikes learn your mma buddy

 

oh your right, hes only been doing martial arts his entire life, his kicks probably dont hurt at all

 

so rampage holding lyoto against the cage for 30 seconds should count more than being clearly outstruck in the standup

 

thanks for teaching me that, im now a better mma fan

[theshaun333]

So you must believe Lyoto beat Shogun' date=' right?[/quote']

 

What? No? Shogun clearly won. I had money on him with my friend, a die hard machida fan, who also thought shogun won. You gotta read what i quoted for that stuff you bolded to make sense. He was claiming machida won round one because his leg kicks made a smaking / slapping sound, or some such nonsense. And yes i understand just because you hear a smack instead of a thud doesnt necessarily mean the kick was " bad ". Just that it was placed in such a way that the foot slapped. But as the general rule goes smack = bad , and thud = good.

[theshaun333]

oh your right' date=' hes only been doing martial arts his entire life, his kicks probably dont hurt at all

 

so rampage holding lyoto against the cage for 30 seconds should count more than being clearly outstruck in the standup

 

thanks for teaching me that, im now a better mma fan[/quote']

 

Get it through your head. Jabbing and throwing weak kicks off your back foot as you run away does not equal clearly out striking somebody. He lost. He didnt deserve to win. Maybe he will actually try to attack his next opponent, before the final round, in the Ultimate FIGHTING Championship. The way he "fights", coupled with the current scoring system, should always end with him losing a decision unless its so freakin obvious that nobody would be questioning it. Rampage showed up to fight, and finish his opponent. Machida showed up to jab and kick his way to a decision. He is going to keep losing decisions to any top lhw until he learns to be more aggressive, or he gets cut / retires.

Lmao @ you thinking your not biased. Atleast i know am.

[kyo_sa]

Get it through your head. Jabbing and throwing weak kicks off your back foot as you run away does not equal clearly out striking somebody. He lost. He didnt deserve to win. Maybe he will actually try to attack his next opponent' date=' before the final round, in the Ultimate FIGHTING Championship. The way he "fights", coupled with the current scoring system, should always end with him losing a decision unless its so freakin obvious that nobody would be questioning it. Rampage showed up to fight, and finish his opponent. Machida showed up to jab and kick his way to a decision. He is going to keep losing decisions to any top lhw until he learns to be more aggressive, or he gets cut / retires.

Lmao @ you thinking your not biased. Atleast i know am.[/quote']

 

sorry man...facts are facts. he landed 2 heavy leg kicks, 2 heavy body kicks, and one good knee. rampage landed one good uppercut. literally nothing else happened in that round, dont even say anything about "clinchwork" he got outstruck

 

lol @ admitting your bias, so basically im looking at it objectively and you are not. im calling it exactly the way it happened, not defending his fighting style. he landed 5 good shots in round 1, rampage landed 1. he wins the round, bouncing around or not. if that doesnt win you the round then theres a big problem with the scoring system, especially since conversely getting a takedown and doing nothing with it sure seems to win people rounds regularly

[TheAce]

all your arguing and stats dont matter

rampage won

 

dana himself said he had rampage winnin 2 rounds to 1 and he runs the ****

thats all that matters

exactly...enough told

[BJBJJ]

now for any of you who say rampage won round 1' date=' take your computer and throw it out the window. [/quote']

 

**** off noob.

 

 

 

the problem is that you didnt watch the fight without pulling your head out of your ***.

 

 

 

fact 1) neither fighter did anything remarkable.

 

fact 2) it was a toss up.

 

fact 3) 2/3 judges scored it for rampage.

 

 

 

 

 

deal with it.

[GSP_4_PM]

**** off noob.

 

 

 

the problem is that you didnt watch the fight without pulling your head out of your ***.

 

 

 

fact 1) neither fighter did anything remarkable.

 

fact 2) it was a toss up.

 

fact 3) 2/3 judges scored it for rampage.

 

 

 

 

 

deal with it.

 

agreed (maybe not so harshly) but agreed

[kyo_sa]

why do you guys keep answering me like im some fanboy? so few normal people on this stupid forum. i like both guys and neither of them so much that i really cared one way or another who won

 

if the situation was reversed id make the same thread saying rampage got screwed.

 

i dont really care about kampmann but he got screwed in his fight with shields as well, and i made the same thread for him by watching the fight online closely and making some notes on what actually happened

 

the scoring is terrible in UFC, thats the point. not that machida didnt win, which in itself doesnt bother me at all. i know machida did nothing remarkable but he still cleanly won the 1st round on points. and its annoying to me when i can see that **** on tv and some guy is making a salary and cant count strikes landed. but you know if machida got outstruck 10-1 but got a takedown he would probably win the round cuz thats how it is these days. dont tell me to "deal with it" that rampage won, i couldnt care less, i care about garbage judging and garbage decisions

 

you should be looking at the facts and saying, damn looks like machida actually landed way more strikes! instead i get people telling me those strikes shouldnt count cuz they werent really strong... as if it matters....or that they shouldnt count because he was sidestepping....like that makes sense... and telling me to get over it... as if i care...

[BType13x2]

well im arguing that he clearly DID outstrike him in the first...and also you have to count what lands man. we cant just start counting only what obviously hurts a guy. every fight you see a guy eat punches in the face like they are nothing' date=' does that mean they shouldnt count?

 

anyway i agree with everything else, lyoto can blame himself for respecting rampages power too much, if he had even gone after it just a BIT more in the first and left no doubt in anyones mind, he would have had it. hell he could have conceivably finished it, he had rampage in real trouble...especially on the ground, i have no idea why he didnt try to take it there until the 3rd. i was honestly half expecting a finish, or at best a decisive decision..he didnt go all out so he lost, that part is true, but ill maintain he should have 100% got the 1st and subsequently the decision[/quote']

 

Then Machida had nothing to stand on in the fight because Rampage LANDED MORE. And that was by a healthy margin too.

[kyo_sa]

Then Machida had nothing to stand on in the fight because Rampage LANDED MORE. And that was by a healthy margin too.

 

man id agree with you if most of it wasnt baby **** against the cage. he ends up with more leg strikes in total on fight metric and didnt throw one kick, it was all the knees in the thighs against the cage

 

anyway i made my point, machida lost and thats all that matters really. i just want to see some judges who actually have some experience and training with this stuff, its too close of a sport to not have professionals scoring it

[BType13x2]

man id agree with you if most of it wasnt baby **** against the cage. he ends up with more leg strikes in total on fight metric and didnt throw one kick' date=' it was all the knees in the thighs against the cage

 

anyway i made my point, machida lost and thats all that matters really. i just want to see some judges who actually have some experience and training with this stuff, its too close of a sport to not have professionals scoring it[/quote']

 

My problem with your argument is it shows a double standard. You said earlier that every strike whether it does damage or not needs to be judged. Well if you see it that way then Rampage won cleanly because he landed more. But you don't want to agree with me because most of it was inconsequential from inside the clinch. Well you can't have it both ways, either you score a fight based upon significant strikes which would throw out all but say 10 of rampages strikes and Machida would have probably twice that in significance. Or you judge it just based on landed strikes which is what I am all but certain that they did.

 

Now when you look at the fight in terms of Strikes landed and aggression well Rampage won the fight. Then when you look at Round 3 Machida won the round and that was when the most significant events in the fight happened. Do you throw out the 2 previous rounds which were lackluster but were edged towards Rampage just because Machida had a more dominant 3rd round?

 

The fact of the matter is you cannot. And the blame is as always on the fighter or fighter(s) involved.

[kyo_sa]

My problem with your argument is it shows a double standard. You said earlier that every strike whether it does damage or not needs to be judged. Well if you see it that way then Rampage won cleanly because he landed more. But you don't want to agree with me because most of it was inconsequential from inside the clinch. Well you can't have it both ways' date=' either you score a fight based upon significant strikes which would throw out all but say 10 of rampages strikes and Machida would have probably twice that in significance. Or you judge it just based on landed strikes which is what I am all but certain that they did.

 

Now when you look at the fight in terms of Strikes landed and aggression well Rampage won the fight. Then when you look at Round 3 Machida won the round and that was when the most significant events in the fight happened. Do you throw out the 2 previous rounds which were lackluster but were edged towards Rampage just because Machida had a more dominant 3rd round?

 

The fact of the matter is you cannot. And the blame is as always on the fighter or fighter(s) involved.[/quote']

 

im actually basing it on significant strikes, which by my count favoured machida in round 1....but i appreciate your intelligent response and you make a good point. again, i get how rampage won, i just dont agree with the scoring system, i think its rewarding aggression over actual clean strikes in this fight. anyway like i said, its done and i dont want to come across as a butthurt fanboy, rather just express my disagreement with the scoring system

 

cheers mate

[cruz2990]

I had Machida takeing rounds 1 and 3! The Dragon really won this fight girls!

[seXXXpac]

What? No? Shogun clearly won. I had money on him with my friend' date=' a die hard machida fan, who also thought shogun won. You gotta read what i quoted for that stuff you bolded to make sense. He was claiming machida won round one because his leg kicks made a smaking / slapping sound, or some such nonsense. And yes i understand just because you hear a smack instead of a thud doesnt necessarily mean the kick was " bad ". Just that it was placed in such a way that the foot slapped. [b']But as the general rule goes smack = bad , and thud = good[/b].

 

Which is exactly what the majority of Shogun's kicks did to Machida.. they 'slapped' off of him.

 

Or are you one of those 'fans' that like to ignore that fact?

[theshaun333]

Which is exactly what the majority of Shogun's kicks did to Machida.. they 'slapped' off of him.

 

Or are you one of those 'fans' that like to ignore that fact?

 

So im assuming we are talking about the first fight? Frankly i cant really remember the sound shoguns kicks were making, as i havent watched that fight in forever. Regardless of the noise it was evident that his kicks did a lot of damage to machida. I'm really not sure what your are getting at though. It seems your accusing me of something, but without actually saying what your accusing me of lol.

[DASTARK]

i am machida fan i admit i am most likely biased and believe machida won but its okay this wont really affect his rankings at all because it was a close fight but still i think machida did more then just back up just my opinion though

[theshaun333]

sorry man...facts are facts. he landed 2 heavy leg kicks' date=' 2 heavy body kicks, and one good knee. rampage landed one good uppercut. literally nothing else happened in that round, dont even say anything about "clinchwork" he got outstruck

 

lol @ admitting your bias, so basically im looking at it objectively and you are not. im calling it exactly the way it happened, not defending his fighting style. he landed 5 good shots in round 1, rampage landed 1. he wins the round, bouncing around or not. if that doesnt win you the round then theres a big problem with the scoring system, especially since conversely getting a takedown and doing nothing with it sure seems to win people rounds regularly[/quote']

 

See you cant go calling things facts that are, in fact, opinions. I just re watched the first round. First id like to point out to you that machida missed as many kicks as he landed. The leg kicks that landed landed with his foot. Im not gonna say that you cant inflict damage while landing with your foot, but i think we can agree that landing with the shin does more. The kicks he landed were not "heavy" by any means. They were feelers. He was judging distance, and trying to set up other things. He didnt throw them hard. Go back and look at some of his other fights. Those kicks are nothing compared to what he can do. Hell even compare it to the nice body kick he landed.

 

Maybe your going to disagree with me on that, but for the sake of argument dont. Rampage landed just as many shots in the clinch with punches to the body, elbows to the leg, and knees to the leg. So as a judge which do you give more points for. Some weak kicks, about the same degree of clinch work. They both did about the same amount of damage so to me thats a stalemate.

 

Now on to these body kicks. Yes machida landed ONE very nice body kick. It was a solid shot. Your going to have to look a little closer however at the others, because rampage blocked / checked the other body kicks. So that one body kick was machidas most significant strike landed. Compare that to the uppercut that rampage landed coming out of the clinch. To me the uppercut is more significant strike, BUT for the sake of argument lets say that it is tied with machidas body kick (singular).

 

That brings us to octagon control, and aggressiveness. Say that what is stated above is true, even though i give a VERY VERY slight edge to page in strikes, then you have to give page the points for control / aggressiveness. He pushed the pace, cut machida off, and controlled him against the cage. So the round goes to rampage because of these scoring criteria. Had machida pushed the pace more, or actually gone on the offensive at all, this round easily could have been a draw or victory for him.

 

It was a very close fight, but machida didnt do enough to pull out a very close decision.

[mad182]

See you cant go calling things facts that are' date=' in fact, opinions. I just re watched the first round. First id like to point out to you that machida missed as many kicks as he landed. The leg kicks that landed landed with his foot. Im not gonna say that you cant inflict damage while landing with your foot, but i think we can agree that landing with the shin does more. The kicks he landed were not "heavy" by any means. They were feelers. He was judging distance, and trying to set up other things. He didnt throw them hard. Go back and look at some of his other fights. Those kicks are nothing compared to what he can do. Hell even compare it to the nice body kick he landed.

 

Maybe your going to disagree with me on that, but for the sake of argument dont. Rampage landed just as many shots in the clinch with punches to the body, elbows to the leg, and knees to the leg. So as a judge which do you give more points for. Some weak kicks, about the same degree of clinch work. They both did about the same amount of damage so to me thats a stalemate.

 

Now on to these body kicks. Yes machida landed ONE very nice body kick. It was a solid shot. Your going to have to look a little closer however at the others, because rampage blocked / checked the other body kicks. So that one body kick was machidas most significant strike landed. Compare that to the uppercut that rampage landed coming out of the clinch. To me the uppercut is more significant strike, BUT for the sake of argument lets say that it is tied with machidas body kick (singular).

 

That brings us to octagon control, and aggressiveness. Say that what is stated above is true, even though i give a VERY VERY slight edge to page in strikes, then you have to give page the points for control / aggressiveness. He pushed the pace, cut machida off, and controlled him against the cage. So the round goes to rampage because of these scoring criteria. Had machida pushed the pace more, or actually gone on the offensive at all, this round easily could have been a draw or victory for him.

 

It was a very close fight, but machida didnt do enough to pull out a very close decision.[/quote']

 

100 % agree and thats the way two of three judges saw it as well! I think its only fair Machida lost cause he did nothing to make the fight an exciting one.

[casino16]

well they are nut huggers, they saw rampage uppercut him once in the second round and forgot about the first round all together. also apparently according to judges getting a stalemate on the cage is worth more points than what lyoto did the whole fight....except for that one smart judge. Stalemate's shouldnt give you any points ITS RETARDED, u should not be able to win a fight by holding someone

[Sarge008]

Think about it you went back and watched it for the second time while the judges at the time couldnt watch it the second time and i think because rampage was constantly coming foward which is aggression won him the fight. I still believe Rampage won the fight but if you can understand what im saying is it took you the second time to acctually point out the leg kicks etc whereas the judges couldnt.