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Should The UFC Cut Fighters That Don't Want to Fight Training Partners


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Okay then offer an alternate solution for the LHW division if Rashad wins the title from Shogun.

 

There are many more people for him to fight than just Jon Jones.

 

Besides, title fights are a little different.

If the contender doesn't want to fight his friend, then that's his loss.

If the champion doesn't want to fight his friend, but his friend agrees, then he could potentially be stripped of the title.

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Many? Name any. He's already beaten Forrest' date=' Thiago, and he just beat Rampage. Machida is at the bottom of the barrel right now and needs atleast two maybe three wins to get a title shot. Couture is retiring and Franklin needs another win after Forrest to get a shot. There is nobody but the Bones/Bader winner.[/quote']

 

Forrest was beating him, so a rematch is possible.

Thiago had him hurt in the third round, and is recovered from his injuries.

Rampage was coming off a long layoff.

Machida holds a victory over him. Champions usually want to get those losses back.

Couture won't retire if they offer him a title shot.

Franklin doesn't need another victory for a title shot, especially if you think Jones/Bader should get one.

Shogun may end up being 'robbed', and get an instant rematch.

 

Need more?

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So one fighter sits on the shelf until his team is deathroned or just picks off contenders while the champ sits on the belt for months maybe a year until a proper contender developes? There is nobody else right now. Nobody wants to see Rashad/Rampage 2 and nobody wants to see Jones shelved for a year or longer.

That's Jones's problem. He knew what business he was getting into and what it might take to be the best at it. If you join a camp with tons of top fighters there is a good chance you will have to fight one of them on your way to the top. If he wants the belt, then he can say so and Rashad has to fight him or give up the belt. I definitely don't see what cutting them would help. So now our champ and number 1 contender are gone? Yea, we're in good shape now.

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That's Jones's problem. He knew what business he was getting into and what it might take to be the best at it. If you join a camp with tons of top fighters there is a good chance you will have to fight one of them on your way to the top. If he wants the belt' date=' then he can say so and Rashad has to fight him or give up the belt. I definitely don't see what cutting them would help. So now our champ and number 1 contender are gone? Yea, we're in good shape now.[/quote']

 

Agreed.

Although I would never fight my friend. Unless I was the champion.

It's not very friendly to try to take what your friend has.

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Agreed.

Although I would never fight my friend. Unless I was the champion.

It's not very friendly to try to take what your friend has.

 

This is your life, it's not very friendly to deny your friend a chance at his dream. You are the champ, you reached the peak, now give your friend his chance to do the same.

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In direct answer to the OP - No.

 

The case Rashad made for never wanting to fight Jardine, was that as training partrners, you give a lot away about youir style, your thought process, your tendencies and that is necessary to BE a good training partner. If you thought you might have to fight one of your partners, then most fighters would hold back meaning their training wouldn't be so good etc.

 

Thats a good argument, and stems from good, competitive, practical reasons rather than the fluffy and much mocked notion of friendship (even though I think that's a relatively good reason.)

 

Aside from that, there are always plenty of options and the only time a team mate vs. team mate match would seem to be a necessity would be if one was champion and one was the only obvious #1 contender. Now, if the challenger won't fight his friend, then he misses out on his chance to be a challenger. Shame.

If the champion won't fight the challenger, then there is a case for him being stripped or more likely that the challenger who has 'broken ranks' with the team and accepted a shot at his gold-holding colleague will have to find another camp.

 

Folks seem to have been focussing on the possible future title match between Rashad Evans & Jon Jones. First of all, that's based on a few serious IFs.

 

1- Rashad beats Shogun for the title.

2- Jones beats Bader

3- Jones is selected as a better challenger than the winner of Jackson-Silva, Griffin-Franklin, Couture-Machida or even Davis-Hamill

 

Those are some HUGELY variable questions.

 

So assuming Rashad & Bones win their next matches and Dana & Joe offer Bones the shot - he can either refuse, or probably choose to leave Jacksons. If Bones refuses, he may be encouraged to move to heavyweight (as he has said he plans to eventually) as that division is a bit shallow, although also has teammates (Carwin & Schaub) in prominent positions.

 

At the end of the day, should the situation arise for any pair of fighters who also happen to be teammates it comes down to a question for the challenging fighter between your friendship/loyalty against career advancement/ambition.

 

Most fighters on the up will naturally choose the latter, while the champs who don't want to face a training partner will cray about loyalty etc.

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This is your life' date=' it's not very friendly to deny your friend a chance at his dream. You are the champ, you reached the peak, now give your friend his chance to do the same.[/quote']

 

Not at my expense, though.

I would never try to take something away from my friend that he has worked hard for and earned.

It would be like trying to take his job as the head of a company.

If he loses it, however, then it would be my time to shine.

 

I guess some people just see things differently.

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The question is how do you train for it? Let's say Jacare moved to the UFC and they set up a fight between him and Anderson.

 

Is them sparring each other everyday going to be their training leading up to the fight? They both train at Blackhouse in Brazil. I guess you could have one go to L.A and train, but the fact remains that they have trained together for years, are friends, and the fight would be a dull, lifeless, stalemate.

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Not at my expense' date=' though.

I would never try to take something away from my friend that he has worked hard for and earned.

It would be like trying to take his job as the head of a company.

If he loses it, however, then it would be my time to shine.

 

I guess some people just see things differently.[/quote']

 

This isn't like a company though. A company works together to do what is best for the company. This is a man-to-man sport, a competition that's sole purpose is to see who is the best individual fighter. If your friend can beat you, then he deserves your title and it would be selfish to deny him that. If I was the champ, that's how I would see it. Of course, if I were at Greg Jackson's, with all these issues, I would make it clear beforehand that I am going for the title no matter who is in the way. It's my dream and I won't sacrifice that dream because I'm training with you guys. Sorry, that's just how it is.

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The Champion should fight anyone that is thrown at him. If he doesnt then he should be stripped from the title and fight non-contenders, guys at the bottom of the barrel. He shouldnt get to fight any contenders for the danger of throwing off contenders.

 

If the no.1 contender refuses to fight the champ he should be thrown at the back of the line and fight guys at the bottom of the barrel until he does want to fight for the title no matter who holds it. of course in both the cases of the champ and the contender their fights at the bottom should be reflected by their paycheck. if you hurt their pockets, they will change their stance on not fighting team mates. because by not wanting to fight team mates they hurt the company. Fans want to see Evans vs Jones. Make it happen or step down.

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In direct answer to the OP - No.

 

The case Rashad made for never wanting to fight Jardine' date=' was that as training partrners, you give a lot away about youir style, your thought process, your tendencies and that is necessary to BE a good training partner. If you thought you might have to fight one of your partners, then most fighters would hold back meaning their training wouldn't be so good etc.

 

[/quote']

 

Well isnt that a GOOD thing? You thoroughly know your training partner and he thoroughly knows you. No secrets. Great fights! Make it happen!

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I don't want to see anybody cut but if Dana said from here on out if you don't want to fight your training partners than find new employment don't you think fighters would change their mind. Obviously nobody would give up their position and paycheck in the UFC to give up the spotlight and take less money in a lessar organization. The Mannings play against each other almost every year and you don't see one opting for the Canadian Football League because they don't want to compete against each other. It's competition. That's it. Get over it.

 

complete co-sign!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Many? Name any. He's already beaten Forrest' date=' Thiago, and he just beat Rampage. Machida is at the bottom of the barrel right now and needs atleast two maybe three wins to get a title shot. Couture is retiring and Franklin needs another win after Forrest to get a shot. There is nobody but the Bones/Bader winner.

 

IFranklin & Franklin are higher up the food chain and will get a title shot before Jones Bader and the fact that they are the Co Main Event this weekend and not Jones vs Bader should of been a clear indiicator for you.

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i don't think they should get cut' date=' however this is buisness nd its nothing personal just because you fight your friend. the sport is about class and sportsmanship, and whether ur fighting a friend or not is meaningless. let them fight![/quote']

 

 

People who say this don't compete in professional combat.

 

e.g.

 

Would Machida teach Silva all his moves (and vice-versa) if he thought one day they could be facing each other?

 

NO!!!!

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People who say this don't compete in professional combat.

 

e.g.

 

Would Machida teach Silva all his moves (and vice-versa) if he thought one day they could be facing each other?

 

NO!!!!

 

no but i wrestle at a division one level at the moment, so i kno exactly what its like to compete against ur teamates just to be able to even compete in ur sport at all. don't just assume friend. :). that example btw doesnt really help out ur case. silva has said that he wont fight machida. ever. nd in all honestly i dont see silva wanting to compete at lhw anyway. i feel after the belfort fight. (if he wins) he'll consider retirement and then he'll prolly want revenge against okami. once that is done. he'll leave behind his legacy at middleweight and finally have a super fight against gsp. this is all just my opinion btw.

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no but i wrestle at a division one level at the moment' date=' so i kno exactly what its like to compete against ur teamates just to be able to even compete in ur sport at all. don't just assume friend. :). that example btw doesnt really help out ur case. silva has said that he wont fight machida. ever. nd in all honestly i dont see silva wanting to compete at lhw anyway. i feel after the belfort fight. (if he wins) he'll consider retirement and then he'll prolly want revenge against okami. once that is done. he'll leave behind his legacy at middleweight and finally have a super fight against gsp. this is all just my opinion btw.[/quote']

 

OK, assuming is not cool, my bad ;)

 

Now, in MMA one loss/win can change a career, so trust me, training partners in MMA are way more efficient if they now they will not be facing each other.

Specially if you're talking about the top of each division where there's a lot at stake.

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OK' date=' assuming is not cool, my bad ;)

 

Now, in MMA one loss/win can change a career, so trust me, training partners in MMA are way more efficient if they now they will not be facing each other.

Specially if you're talking about the top of each division where there's a lot at stake.[/quote']

 

tis true. i see ur point, but i think that when pairing fighters from the same team u know each others strengths nd weaknesses. with that being said when fights like that would be paired i would suggest each go to a different camp therefore work on game plans for each other. i mean its basically similar because fighters who arent on the same team i assume watch film nd spar with fighters with similar fighting techniques. i still say let em fight bu i see where ur comin from. always gunna be a debatable issue

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This isn't like a company though. A company works together to do what is best for the company. This is a man-to-man sport' date=' a competition that's sole purpose is to see who is the best individual fighter. If your friend can beat you, then he deserves your title and it would be selfish to deny him that. If I was the champ, that's how I would see it. Of course, if I were at Greg Jackson's, with all these issues, I would make it clear beforehand that I am going for the title no matter who is in the way. It's my dream and I won't sacrifice that dream because I'm training with you guys. Sorry, that's just how it is.[/quote']

 

But that's where you're wrong.

This is very much the same type of deal. These teammates and friends are working together to make sure that they are the best that they can be.

At this level of competition, it isn't always the best 'fighter' that wins. Often times, it's the better prepared fighter that comes out on top. That all starts in the training camp with your team.

 

Sure, there are certain 'training partners' that I would fight, but those are the ones who aren't really part of my 'team'. Know what I mean?

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haha umm besides all the reasons I already gave you why these matchups wouldn't work yes I do need more.

 

Franklin will not get a title fight from beating Forrest. Machida is not anywhere near a title shot. You can't sell a fight solely on fighters having their moments in fights against Rashad before he beat them. He KO'd Forrest and he's just coming off victories over Thiago and Rampage. NOBODY wants to see those rematches yet. And you're banking on Shogun maybe getting robbed and getting a rematch LMAO. Oh and I can hear your awesome promo for Rashad/Rampage 2 right now. "Despite just beating Rampage a few months ago via man hug for 15 minutes Rampage deserves another shot because he had a lay off" pssshhh.

 

You hittin' the sauce' date=' man? Because this post makes no sense at all.

 

The UFC can sell a fight any way they see fit, and if Thiago Silva knocks Rampage out, they will easily be able to promote that fight.

Forrest Griffin is an EASY sell, and by saying that Machida is 'not anywhere near a title shot', you make yourself seem like an idiot.

 

Now, onto the even DUMBER things that you said.

 

NOBODY wants to see those rematches yet

 

Nobody? Since when do you speak for me or anyone else on this forum? Not to mention the millions of other fans around the world.

Just because YOU don't want to see them, doesn't mean that nobody else does. I know this, because I'd love to see those rematches.

 

Oh and I can hear your awesome promo for Rashad/Rampage 2 right now. "Despite just beating Rampage a few months ago via man hug for 15 minutes Rampage deserves another shot because he had a lay off" pssshhh.

 

You have a very poor concept of time.

By the time Rashad and Rampage would rematch, it would be at LEAST September. That means that it would be about a year and a half since they first fought.

 

Get your head outta your **** and learn something.

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tis true. i see ur point' date=' but i think that when pairing fighters from the same team u know each others strengths nd weaknesses. with that being said when fights like that would be paired i would suggest each go to a different camp therefore work on game plans for each other. i mean its basically similar because fighters who arent on the same team i assume watch film nd spar with fighters with similar fighting techniques. i still say let em fight bu i see where ur comin from. always gunna be a debatable issue[/quote']

 

Also, wrestling is NOT mixed martial arts.

Jiu Jitsu is NOT mixed martial arts.

Even boxing, to an extent, is NOT mixed martial arts.

 

MMA is as close to a real 'fight' that you're going to get.

Yes, it's a sport.

Yes, it has rules.

But people get EFFED UP in MMA fights. If you could willingly and FORCEFULLY drop elbows on your friends face in an attempt to cut him up or knock him out, then you're not a friend that I would want to have.

 

I love my friends, and I will fight with them and for them, but I will NEVER fight against them.

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Uggh I give up on this section. Too many ignorant' date=' stubborn people. Please read what I and other people actually say before you shoot off.

 

You're right, the UFC could make whatever match ups they want but that doesn't mean people are gonna buy it. It might have been almost a year and half since the last time Rampage and Rashad fought by the time they get around to a rematch for the belt but actually think about it bud. Rashad beats Rampage for #1 contender, then beats Shogun for the belt, and then you want him to fight Rampage again? What does that say about the division. Their fight wasn't even close nor that exciting.

 

And yes I stand by what I said about Machida. Getting KO'd by Shogun and losing to Rampage and then beating a 48 year old Couture in his retirement match does not equal a title shot. Especially when someone like Bones has won 6 in a row counting the Hammill fight. Franklin got KO'd by Vitor before Chuck and would be [b']a tough sell[/b] and Forrest would be an even tougher sell. Quit being so stubborn and ignorant and just admit that Jones is the only logical matchup.

 

Just who the hell do you think the UFC is selling the fights to?

I'll give you a hint: It's NOT the keyboard warriors of the world.

 

In the real world (read: UFC fans, not MMA fans), nobody gives a crap about Jon Jones. Nor do they really care about Ryan Bader, although I would say that he's more popular since he won TUF.

 

You can call me an ignorant, stubborn person if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that YOU ARE WRONG.

Being a former champion means a LOT more than beating a bunch of nobodies.

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