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Melvinj0

Fitch Vs Penn Rnd 2 Statistics

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People seem to agree that Bj won rnd 1 and Fitch won rnd 3. So lets take a look at rnd 2.

 

 

Jon Fitch

 

# of TD's - 1

 

# of Passes - 0

 

# of Sweeps/reversals - 1

 

Significant Strikes Landed - 14

 

Head Strikes landed - 20

 

Body Strikes Landed - 31

 

Legs Leg Strikes Landed - 8

 

Total Strikes Landed - 59

 

 

BJ Penn

 

# of TD's - 1

 

# of Passes - 1

 

# of Sweeps/Reversals - 0

 

Significant Strikes Landed - 5

 

Head Strikes landed - 15

 

Body Strikes Landed - 2

 

Leg Strikes Landed - 1

 

Total Strikes Landed - 18

 

 

Fight Metric rnd 2 winner = Jon fitch 10-9

 

Source - http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02/fitch-vs-penn-official-ufc-statistics.html

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But in a 10 point must system it is.

No...its really not. Not only that but ive found so many of these punch/strike stats to be sketchy at best. Ive tallied up stirkes in fights and gotten different numbers than them, and im not talking about "significant strikes" im talking about my total has been different than theirs.

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But in a 10 point must system it is.

 

Wrong.

 

The big argument supporting wrestling styles is the factor of control, under those very same guidelines, BJ controlled over 3 1/2 minutes of the second round, which means he won it.

 

If it is good enough for Fitch, GSP, Sonnen, Bader, Rashad... etc... then it is good enough for BJ against Fitch, especially against Fitch actually.

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Wrong.

 

The big argument supporting wrestling styles is the factor of control' date=' under those very same guidelines, BJ controlled over 3 1/2 minutes of the second round, which means he won it.

 

If it is good enough for Fitch, GSP, Sonnen, Bader, Rashad... etc... then it is good enough for BJ against Fitch, especially against Fitch actually.[/quote']

Bingo, thanks for explaining that one.

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Wrong.

 

The big argument supporting wrestling styles is the factor of control' date=' under those very same guidelines, BJ controlled over 3 1/2 minutes of the second round, which means he won it.

 

If it is good enough for Fitch, GSP, Sonnen, Bader, Rashad... etc... then it is good enough for BJ against Fitch, especially against Fitch actually.[/quote']

 

Are you sure he was in control for that long?

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Wrong.

 

The big argument supporting wrestling styles is the factor of control' date=' under those very same guidelines, BJ controlled over 3 1/2 minutes of the second round, which means he won it.

 

If it is good enough for Fitch, GSP, Sonnen, Bader, Rashad... etc... then it is good enough for BJ against Fitch, especially against Fitch actually.[/quote']

 

Umm wrong dude, watch the fight again and time it. Fitch controls BJ for longer. He spent around 2 mins holding BJ up against the cage, and about 1 and half mins on top of him. Penn lost the 2nd round, get over it fanboy :)

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MMA in North America works on a 10-point must system, of course these statistics are relevent. This is the scoring criteria by which judges should be basing their decisions.

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Umm wrong dude' date=' watch the fight again and time it. Fitch controls BJ for longer. He spent around 2 mins holding BJ up against the cage, and about 1 and half mins on top of him. Penn lost the 2nd round, get over it fanboy :)[/quote']

Nobody is the fanboy here in this discussion. You're like the only nerdy dude here so how can you throw insults?

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MMA in North America works on a 10-point must system' date=' of course these statistics are relevent. This is the scoring criteria by which judges should be basing their decisions.[/quote']

 

I'd have to see some concrete definitions first. What is considered a "significant" strike, for example.

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I'd have to see some concrete definitions first. What is considered a "significant" strike' date=' for example.[/quote']

 

I believe significant implies strikes that land clean, as opposed to grazing punches, or ones that are blocked.

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I'd have to see some concrete definitions first. What is considered a "significant" strike' date=' for example.[/quote']

Thats what im wondering as well. Because I don't think Fitch landed too many significant shots in the second, I consider the hard shots he was landing in the 3rd significant though.

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I believe significant implies strikes that land clean' date=' as opposed to grazing punches, or ones that are blocked.[/quote']

So then clean pitter patter punches are significant? I think thats crap.

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I believe significant implies strikes that land clean' date=' as opposed to grazing punches, or ones that are blocked.[/quote']

 

That's a good way to define it, I guess. Though it sucks that different people will consider different strikes "significant".

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Umm wrong dude' date=' watch the fight again and time it. Fitch controls BJ for longer. He spent around 2 mins holding BJ up against the cage, and about 1 and half mins on top of him. Penn lost the 2nd round, get over it fanboy :)[/quote']

 

All that time against the fence, with Fitch holding a singleleg while BJ blocks it and lands effective offensive elbows and punches was BJ in control. Keeping the fight standing while landing strikes IS control. Fitch didn't gain control until he got the TD with about a minute and a half left.

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All that time against the fence' date=' with Fitch holding a singleleg while BJ blocks it and lands effective offensive elbows and punches was BJ in control. Keeping the fight standing while landing strikes IS control. Fitch didn't gain control until he got the TD with about a minute and a half left.[/quote']

 

I can see where you're coming from, but if BJ was defending the takedown, then he's not in control. I'm not saying Fitch should get points from it, but I don't see how BJ con be considered in control.

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I can see where you're coming from' date=' but if BJ was defending the takedown, then he's not in control. I'm not saying Fitch should get points from it, but I don't see how BJ con be considered in control.[/quote']

 

He was determining where the fight took place by stuffing the continued attempt at the single leg, even with his back to the fence, while landiing effective offensive strikes.

 

He was stopping Fitch's only offense, and delivering his own effective offense.

 

See where I am coming from? Stuffing a TD attempt for over a minute means he was controlling where the fight took place, and who was landing more effective offense.

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I can see where you're coming from' date=' but if BJ was defending the takedown, then he's not in control. I'm not saying Fitch should get points from it, but I don't see how BJ con be considered in control.[/quote']

 

Agreed. The time spent against the cage is even at best. But, since Fitch was going for the TD and Penn was actually defending well and landing good elbows if there is any tilt it should go slightly toward Penn. Couture's control against the cage is different in that he seldom goes for TDs he's just controlling against the cage. In that instance it IS control since it's his actual objective. Fitch wasn't controlling, he was going for a TD (objective), which he was NOT successfully completing. Therefore, there's no way you can say that the standup moments should be Fitch's points.

 

Also, in rd 2 Penn busted Fitch's face and controlled him on the ground with backmount, the most dominant position you can get.

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He was determining where the fight took place by stuffing the continued attempt at the single leg' date=' even with his back to the fence, while landiing effective offensive strikes.

 

He was stopping Fitch's only offense, and delivering his own effective offense.

 

See where I am coming from? Stuffing a TD attempt for over a minute means he was controlling where the fight took place, and who was landing more effective offense.[/quote']

 

No, you think BJ had more control over where the fight was taking place? So he wanted to have his back on the cage?

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That's a good way to define it' date=' I guess. Though it sucks that different people will consider different strikes "significant".[/quote']

 

This is the key. Judges base their scoring on opinion, and some of these judges don't know what the hell they are looking at in an MMA fight. I believe that judges should be former fighters, and until that happens, judging will never be any good in MMA.

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This is the key. Judges base their scoring on opinion' date=' and some of these judges don't know what the hell they are looking at in an MMA fight. I believe that judges should be former fighters, and until that happens, judging will never be any good in MMA.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I agree. If you haven't fought in the cage than you really don't appreciate what each aspect offers. Just like Shogun/Machida, I'm not getting into who should have won, but Lyoto did land more head shots. Had the judges ever taken a leg kick, they might have judged it differently.

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Wrong.

 

The big argument supporting wrestling styles is the factor of control' date=' under those very same guidelines, BJ controlled over 3 1/2 minutes of the second round, which means he won it.

 

If it is good enough for Fitch, GSP, Sonnen, Bader, Rashad... etc... then it is good enough for BJ against Fitch, especially against Fitch actually.[/quote']

 

Completely agree. If you are going to post statistics like that then add a statistic that is titled: Dominant Time Period:

 

Just because Fitch was able to land some little hits in 30 seconds - 60 seconds of the fight does not mean he won that round by any means.

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No' date=' you think BJ had more control over where the fight was taking place? So he wanted to have his back on the cage?[/quote']

 

Of course not, but Fitch wanted him on the ground, and spent over a minute attempting, and failing to get it there. BJ may not have wanted his back against the cage, but he was okay with it being there instead of flat on the canvas. Leave the position against the cage out of the equation and break it down simply.

 

Fitch wanted it down, BJ wanted it up, and it stayed up.

 

Fitch's only offense was consistantly blocked, BJ landed numerous effective offensive strikes.

 

To me that is the essence of control.

 

now once Fitch got the doubleleg TD at around 3:30 or so, he controlled the rest, but BJ was in control for the wide majority of the round.

 

I honestly may not agree with all of the criteria, but it is what it is. And according to the same criteria Fitch has so often taken advantage of himself, BJ won rd 2 based on effective striking,grappling, and control.

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Well those touches messed up Bj's face pretty good :)

 

Those little strikes were not until the third round. The second round is the round we seen Penn cut Fitch's face.

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Yeah' date=' I agree. If you haven't fought in the cage than you really don't appreciate what each aspect offers. Just like Shogun/Machida, I'm not getting into who should have won, but Lyoto did land more head shots. Had the judges ever taken a leg kick, they might have judged it differently.[/quote']

 

Lyoto did not land more head shots.

 

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/08/machida-vs-shogun-fightmetric-report.html

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Of course not' date=' but Fitch wanted him on the ground, and spent over a minute attempting, and failing to get it there. BJ may not have wanted his back against the cage, but he was okay with it being there instead of flat on the canvas. Leave the position against the cage out of the equation and break it down simply.

 

Fitch wanted it down, BJ wanted it up, and it stayed up.

 

Fitch's only offense was consistantly blocked, BJ landed numerous effective offensive strikes.

 

To me that is the essence of control.

 

now once Fitch got the doubleleg TD at around 3:30 or so, he controlled the rest, but BJ was in control for the wide majority of the round.

 

I honestly may not agree with all of the criteria, but it is what it is. And according to the same criteria Fitch has so often taken advantage of himself, BJ won rd 2 based on effective striking,grappling, and control.[/quote']

 

Actually, I disagree. Fitch wanted the fight either on the ground, or at worse against the cage, that way BJ could not KO him. Like I said, I'm not saying he should get points for it, but BJ was against the cage against his will, that means Fitch was in control.

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Those little strikes were not until the third round. The second round is the round we seen Penn cut Fitch's face.

 

You must've missed what each fighters face looked like at the end.

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completey unbiased. i dont like either fitch nor bj, could care less about both fighters. i re watched the fight earlier today righting down my scores. and the second round when i watched it live, for fun not looking too in depth i thought that fitch won round two. but afetr i rewatched it today i looked very close at every little thing and scored the round for bj. but it was so cose it could have been 10 10, 10 9 bj or 10 9 fitch. its just a matter of opinion really. if you would have had 3 different judges that nght scoring the match. we could be talkin about something completely different right now

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No' date=' you think BJ had more control over where the fight was taking place? So he wanted to have his back on the cage?[/quote']

 

Not that he wanted his back on the fence it was the fact he DID NOT want his back on the canvas and he accomplished this for a tremendous time period.

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231-48 strikes is why Jon Fitch should have won.

 

The grappling elements of the fight in essence nullified each other.

 

Agreed.

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Of course not' date=' but Fitch wanted him on the ground, and spent over a minute attempting, and failing to get it there. BJ may not have wanted his back against the cage, but he was okay with it being there instead of flat on the canvas. Leave the position against the cage out of the equation and break it down simply.

 

Fitch wanted it down, BJ wanted it up, and it stayed up.

 

Fitch's only offense was consistantly blocked, BJ landed numerous effective offensive strikes.

 

To me that is the essence of control.

 

now once Fitch got the doubleleg TD at around 3:30 or so, he controlled the rest, but BJ was in control for the wide majority of the round.

 

I honestly may not agree with all of the criteria, but it is what it is. And according to the same criteria Fitch has so often taken advantage of himself, BJ won rd 2 based on effective striking,grappling, and control.[/quote']

 

This is the most ridiculous argument... Fitch was actively trying to move into a dominant position while BJ was content on doing nothing and your giving him majority control. BJ's gameplan was to take Fitch down which he couldn't do for 3 minutes since Fitch was the aggressor. If anything the time on the feet is null and void. It comes down to the end of the round where Fitch was raining down on hammer fists. Fitch Won that round. Even BJ himself said he lost. Why are his fans so blind.

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You also must take in to consideration the submission attemps. Its a big deal when the judges see a fight actually trying to finish the fight, Also take in to consideration the the first to rounds BJ pushed the pace in the octagon. The fight metric doesnt tell the whole story. Maybe if fitch actually tried to show that he was trying to finish the fight instead of play it safe the judges would have gone his way in the second round. It was a draw. maybe this will wake fitch up and not let it go to a decision next time,

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You must've missed what each fighters face looked like at the end.

 

Actually if you look at bother of their faces the day after there is not a huge difference. Also I never say he didn't damage B.J's face because he certainly did in the third round yes.

 

Next time try of accusing me of something I actually said.

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People seem to agree that Bj won rnd 1 and Fitch won rnd 3. So lets take a look at rnd 2.

 

 

Jon Fitch

 

# of TD's - 1

 

# of Passes - 0

 

# of Sweeps/reversals - 1

 

Significant Strikes Landed - 14

 

Head Strikes landed - 20

 

Body Strikes Landed - 31

 

Legs Leg Strikes Landed - 8

 

Total Strikes Landed - 59

 

 

BJ Penn

 

# of TD's - 1

 

# of Passes - 1

 

# of Sweeps/Reversals - 0

 

Significant Strikes Landed - 5

 

Head Strikes landed - 15

 

Body Strikes Landed - 2

 

Leg Strikes Landed - 1

 

Total Strikes Landed - 18

 

 

Fight Metric rnd 2 winner = Jon fitch 10-9

 

Source - http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02/fitch-vs-penn-official-ufc-statistics.html

 

fight metric doesnt list the kind of positions the fighters took

BJ took fitch's back and almost had the choke in

he was 1/1 for takedowns and fitch was only 1/3

 

fight metric is the worst invention in the history of mma

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