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Should shogun change weight class ??


RodrigoRua

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Of course Shogun still has great match ups at LHW and IF he gets health and IN SHAPE AND MOTIVATED he still could be the champ late 2012 or early 2013 or at least be on the top with great performances ....

 

However, after loosing his belt on that fashion (he got beat up) and with so many contenders I really wonder if Shogun would have the motivation to come back strong at LHW ...

 

So, talking in terms of MOTIVATION should Shopgun go to MW (if he can cut it) or move up to HW (considering his age as well) ???

 

I would love to see Shogun vs Cain, Mir, etc ... yes he would be a small HW but fast ... just look at Cain .... he is the smallest HW and he is the champ !!!

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Of course Shogun still has great match ups at LHW and IF he gets health and IN SHAPE AND MOTIVATED he still could be the champ late 2012 or early 2013 or at least be on the top with great performances ....

 

However' date=' after loosing his belt on that fashion (he got beat up) and with so many contenders I really wonder if Shogun would have the motivation to come back strong at LHW ...

 

So, talking in terms of MOTIVATION should Shopgun go to MW (if he can cut it) or move up to HW (considering his age as well) ???

 

I would love to see Shogun vs Cain, Mir, etc ... yes he would be a small HW but fast ... just look at Cain .... he is the smallest HW and he is the champ !!![/quote']

 

Cain's not the smallest HW. He's 245lbs. Cro Cop is 225lbs. If your talking height wise, he's still not the smallest, he's 6'1. Pat Barry is 5'11.

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Of course Shogun still has great match ups at LHW and IF he gets health and IN SHAPE AND MOTIVATED he still could be the champ late 2012 or early 2013 or at least be on the top with great performances ....

 

However' date=' after loosing his belt on that fashion (he got beat up) and with so many contenders I really wonder if Shogun would have the motivation to come back strong at LHW ...

 

So, talking in terms of MOTIVATION should Shopgun go to MW (if he can cut it) or move up to HW (considering his age as well) ???

 

I would love to see Shogun vs Cain, Mir, etc ... yes he would be a small HW but fast ... just look at Cain .... he is the smallest HW and he is the champ !!![/quote']

 

Cain is still much bigger than Shogun. Shogun looked a little chubby at 205 this go around, a move to MW would make more sense

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Of course Shogun still has great match ups at LHW and IF he gets health and IN SHAPE AND MOTIVATED he still could be the champ late 2012 or early 2013 or at least be on the top with great performances ....

 

However' date=' after loosing his belt on that fashion (he got beat up) and with so many contenders I really wonder if Shogun would have the motivation to come back strong at LHW ...

 

So, talking in terms of MOTIVATION should Shopgun go to MW (if he can cut it) or move up to HW (considering his age as well) ???

 

I would love to see Shogun vs Cain, Mir, etc ... yes he would be a small HW but fast ... just look at Cain .... he is the smallest HW and he is the champ !!![/quote']

 

shogun lost to griffin and went on a tear and won the belt after beating an unbeatable opponent in machida, after his lost to babalu he came back and won th GP in pride, after his loss to coleman he came back and started wrecking all over again...shogun always comes back stronger...he WILL be back...

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Cain's not the smallest HW. He's 245lbs. Cro Cop is 225lbs. If your talking height wise' date=' he's still not the smallest, he's 6'1. Pat Barry is 5'11.[/quote']

 

Im sorry .. I was just trying to make a "point" on Shoguns size compared to others guys ... I didnt check the facts !!! LOL

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shogun lost to griffin and went on a tear and won the belt after beating an unbeatable opponent in machida' date=' after his lost to babalu he came back and won th GP in pride, after his loss to coleman he came back and started wrecking all over again...shogun always comes back stronger...he WILL be back...[/quote']

 

I hope so man .. Im big Shogun fan and I really dont think that was the Shogun I know on ufc 128

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I really hope he does come back, im a bit of a shogun **** I will admit, that fight left a horrible taste in my mouth.

You have to fight for your family and to put food on the table whatever condition you are in though I suppose.

 

IMO he should probably go to MW.

 

Okay he is a monster at LHW and Cain dominated a much larger opponent however there is a difference.

Jon Jones is a real mixed martial artist, not a gorilla with sick wrestling and nothing else.

 

When your fighting a guy that much bigger than you who is skilled its a whole different story from what Gracie used to do against unskilled bigger opponents.

 

Also, Shogun has the frame for MW, he needs to go down imo.

 

First fight- Nate Marquadt

Second fight- Michael Bisping

Third fight- Vitor Belfort

Fourth fight- Anderson Silva.

 

Silva vs Shogun would be an all out war.

 

Doesnt have much relevance atm what with Shoguns last performance but WHEN he gets back to being the supernova we'll see, and so will the haters.

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Delusions of granduer (definition) - Shogun could be champ again.

 

its no deulsions its true, he can be... evans can beat jones, rampage will ko evans and shogun will beat rampage in a war and become champ...it CAN happen, weather it will or not is different, your just so stuck in jones' nuts you cnt see...

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its no deulsions its true' date=' he can be... evans can beat jones, rampage will ko evans and shogun will beat rampage in a war and become champ...it CAN happen, weather it will or not is different, your just so stuck in jones' nuts you cnt see...[/quote']

 

Hmm lets see, stuck in Jones' nuts you say. Which sounds more like youre stuck in someones nuts.

 

Predicting that the guy who just systematically dismantled the guy you thought and probably still think the worst guy in the division will be champion for a long time.

 

Or predicting that the guy that just got systematically dismantled by a guy you think is all hype will be champion again.

 

???

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Hmm lets see' date=' stuck in Jones' nuts you say. Which sounds more like youre stuck in someones nuts.

 

Predicting that the guy who just systematically dismantled the guy you thought and probably still think the worst guy in the division will be champion for a long time.

 

Or predicting that the guy that just got systematically dismantled by a guy you think is all hype will be champion again.

 

???[/quote']

 

mr bones, you have not been tested. Shogun gassed in the first round after doing well on the ground.

Add to that the knee and the writing was on the wall!

 

Sanchez lost to Hathaway due to a devastating knee, he never recovered.

Lytle lost to ebersole due to a devastating knee, he never recovered.

 

Lytle and Sanchez are obviously better than their opposition but anything can happen in MMA.

 

Im not saying Shogun would have won had he been in shape, but we'll never know. The problem is there is so many noobs who are so fixated by their fighter they cannot look at the opponent and say, yeah he had problems which may have contributed to that performance.

 

Jones did his job well, no doubt. But you wont catch a fully fit shogun being dismantled like that, imo.

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mr bones' date=' you have not been tested. Shogun gassed in the first round after doing well on the ground.

Add to that the knee and the writing was on the wall!

 

Sanchez lost to Hathaway due to a devastating knee, he never recovered.

Lytle lost to ebersole due to a devastating knee, he never recovered.

 

Lytle and Sanchez are obviously better than their opposition but anything can happen in MMA.

 

Im not saying Shogun would have won had he been in shape, but we'll never know. The problem is there is so many noobs who are so fixated by their fighter they cannot look at the opponent and say, yeah he had problems which may have contributed to that performance.

 

Jones did his job well, no doubt. But you wont catch a fully fit shogun being dismantled like that, imo.[/quote']

 

I dont support making excuses for a grown man who had a year inbetween fights to prepare. No pity for me from Shogun because he couldnt find a way to get in shape.

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mr bones' date=' you have not been tested. Shogun gassed in the first round after doing well on the ground.

Add to that the knee and the writing was on the wall!

 

Sanchez lost to Hathaway due to a devastating knee, he never recovered.

Lytle lost to ebersole due to a devastating knee, he never recovered.

 

Lytle and Sanchez are obviously better than their opposition but anything can happen in MMA.

 

Im not saying Shogun would have won had he been in shape, but we'll never know. The problem is there is so many noobs who are so fixated by their fighter they cannot look at the opponent and say, yeah he had problems which may have contributed to that performance.

 

Jones did his job well, no doubt. But you wont catch a fully fit shogun being dismantled like that, imo.[/quote']

dnt feed the ****, hes a tard....

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i agree there is no excuse. Shogun should def drop to 185 though. He would be a beast at mw and shogun vs. silva would be an all out war. Same goes for wandy silva too for that matter.

 

2 things...

1. Wandy would get killed, i love him but silva is too technical...

2. its not an excuse, bones up there just is took crowded in jones' bone to read correctly...were saying shogun got messed up, which is true...he had a bad gameplan and ddnt gas, the knee screwed him for the fight for sure, but shogun will come back stronger it has been shown time and time again...i think is shogun fights jones again after a couple wins i think shogun can get a game plan to beat him...him up there is just too blind to get outa jones' **** and ******* to stop being a ****...

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2 things...

1. Wandy would get killed' date=' i love him but silva is too technical...

2. its not an excuse, bones up there just is took crowded in jones' bone to read correctly...were saying shogun got messed up, which is true...he had a bad gameplan and ddnt gas, the knee screwed him for the fight for sure, but shogun will come back stronger it has been shown time and time again...i think is shogun fights jones again after a couple wins i think shogun can get a game plan to beat him...him up there is just too blind to get outa jones' **** and ******* to stop being a ****...[/quote']

 

Blaming the loss on his knee is the epitome of an excuse. I'm really starting to think you really dont know what the word excuse means. Also, you have to have your head so far up Shogun's *** you were tasting that juicy head kick Jones gave him last week if you think, after seeing that fight, that Shogun will beat Jones in a rematch. To some point, anything can happen, but 3 rounds of pure domination showed who the better fighter was. And it wasn't a gameplan, cardio, reach, race, height, or knees that did Shogun in, it was Jones being a better fighter.

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I think he should retire, I mean, how many surgeries are you gunna put your body through?

I don't care for the guy, I think he's overrated, but I don't want to see anyone injured beyond repair.

But, no, with The Griff around, Shogun will not be Champ again.

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I think he should retire' date=' I mean, how many surgeries are you gunna put your body through?

I don't care for the guy, I think he's overrated, but I don't want to see anyone injured beyond repair.

But, no, with The Griff around, Shogun will not be Champ again.[/quote']

 

I dont dislike Shogun, I do hate the fact that no one on this forum will admit that Shogun is not the best fighter in the world and can lose, and did lose. I would certainly pick Griffin and Jones in a rematch

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Blaming the loss on his knee is the epitome of an excuse. I'm really starting to think you really dont know what the word excuse means. Also' date=' you have to have your head so far up Shogun's *** you were tasting that juicy head kick Jones gave him last week if you think, after seeing that fight, that Shogun will beat Jones in a rematch. To some point, anything can happen, but 3 rounds of pure domination showed who the better fighter was. And it wasn't a gameplan, cardio, reach, race, height, or knees that did Shogun in, it was Jones being a better fighter.[/quote']

 

i read the first sentence and stopped, dude read my **** and stop thinking in jones' ***, not shoguns knee THE KNEE JONES THREW TO WOBBLE SHOGUN U ****IN IDIOT!! shogun was never the same after that knee in the first round!, its a bravo to jones not a ****in excuse retard...read pplz **** right before saying crap....i wont even respond to the rest of your crap ********...

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i read the first sentence and stopped' date=' dude read my **** and stop thinking in jones' ***, not shoguns knee THE KNEE JONES THREW TO WOBBLE SHOGUN U ****IN IDIOT!! shogun was never the same after that knee in the first round!, its a bravo to jones not a ****in excuse retard...read pplz **** right before saying crap....i wont even respond to the rest of your crap ********...[/quote']

 

Oh excuse me for misreading the word knee the 1 time out of 100 it isnt an excuse for why Shogun loses

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Oh excuse me for misreading the word knee the 1 time out of 100 it isnt an excuse for why Shogun loses

 

sorry i got a little outa hand, i just dnt like it when ppl twist my words when i wasnt tryin to make an excuse....I like shogun cuz he DSNT make excuses and i dnt either, shogun came in 100% just with a **** gameplan...

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Honestly shoguns one of my fave fighters. Im just sayin he would be beast at mw! And yea i know he would beat wandy but it would be a good fight because they are both so aggresive. And i believe he could cause problems for anderson. Not neccesarily beat him but do well and atleast have a chance ftw.

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The guy lost it happens it doesn't mean he should drop down a wheight class. People loose fights all they have to do is train to get better. It's not like he is struggling against all the LHW's big size. As for the reference to his age, the man is 29!! Come on...

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If Shogun went to MW, Dana, being the Shogun **** he is, would fast track him to a title fight with Anderson. Same as he did with Coleman and Chuck just to get him the title shot against Machida.

 

The only difference is that Dana did it the first time because he thought Shogun could hold the title for a long time. This time he will only do it to sell the "Superfight" aspect of it, and the PPV buys, knowing fully well that Silva will completely destroy him.

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If Shogun went to MW' date=' Dana, being the Shogun **** he is, would fast track him to a title fight with Anderson. [b'] Same as he did with Coleman and Chuck just to get him the title shot against Machida. [/b]

The only difference is that Dana did it the first time because he thought Shogun could hold the title for a long time. This time he will only do it to sell the "Superfight" aspect of it, and the PPV buys, knowing fully well that Silva will completely destroy him.

 

dude think about it long and hard, who else was there for a title shot? please explain to me...

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The guy lost it happens it doesn't mean he should drop down a wheight class. People loose fights all they have to do is train to get better. It's not like he is struggling against all the LHW's big size. As for the reference to his age' date=' the man is 29!! Come on...[/quote']

 

common sense doesnt belong in this forum...:Dlol

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Of course Shogun still has great match ups at LHW and IF he gets health and IN SHAPE AND MOTIVATED he still could be the champ late 2012 or early 2013 or at least be on the top with great performances ....

 

However' date=' after loosing his belt on that fashion (he got beat up) and with so many contenders I really wonder if Shogun would have the motivation to come back strong at LHW ...

 

So, talking in terms of MOTIVATION should Shopgun go to MW (if he can cut it) or move up to HW (considering his age as well) ???

 

I would love to see Shogun vs Cain, Mir, etc ... yes he would be a small HW but fast ... just look at Cain .... he is the smallest HW and he is the champ !!![/quote']

 

Twice now in these forums I have heard people saying Shogun wasn't healthy for the fight against JBJ. What a load of crap! All they talked about before the fight was Shogun finally being 100%. Either I missed something, or the Shogun fanboys are back to making excuses. WTF

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dude think about it long and hard' date=' who else was there for a title shot? please explain to me...[/quote']

 

When has there ever been a shortage of good fights at 205, the UFC's premiere division? Here are some of the best ranked LHW's in 2009 when Rua fougth Coleman and Chuck.

 

 

Quinton Jackson

Forrest Griffin

Wanderlei Silva

Keith Jardine

Thiago Silva

Luis Arthur Cane

Rich Franklin

Dan Henderson

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When has there ever been a shortage of good fights at 205' date=' the UFC's premiere division? Here are some of the best ranked LHW's in 2009 when Rua fougth Coleman and Chuck.

 

 

[b']Quinton Jackson

Forrest Griffin

Wanderlei Silva

Keith Jardine

Thiago Silva

Luis Arthur Cane

Rich Franklin

Dan Henderson[/b]

 

Jackson-Dddnt take fight cuz of movie deal issues.

griffin-thowing the fight with silva and lost the belt to rashad in devistating fashion

silva-dude really?

jardine-ur ****in joking right?

thiago-just got demolished by machida+ had back problems

Cane-GTFO

frankline-is still struggling to get up the ranks

Hendo-dude he was at MW doin the silva fight then he was doing the TUF....

 

chuck was a viable contender at the time and shogun killed him even though chuck wa son the way down...there was no one else...and im glad u ddnt say rashad cuz he just had got murdered by machida...

/point given

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Yes, we can sit here and knit pick every possible matchup. My point is that he had an easier track to the title. I still would have liked to see one more fight after his win over Chuck before the title fight

 

And ultimately, I think that is why there has been so much criticism of Shogun in the UFC. I think it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths to see him get that title shot. It can really damage a fighter's accomplishments/reputation once they suffer that inevitable loss.

 

HELLO JAKE SHIELDS. He needs to beat GSP or else his career will take a plunge and no one will care about his past accomplishments either.

 

It all comes down to the crappy matchmaking in the UFC. The powers that be prefer to "sell a fight" that put on the "right" fight, and it's so transparent that any real fan can see it.

 

That's it. I'm stepping off my soapbox. I'm starting to pontificate now.

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Twice now in these forums I have heard people saying Shogun wasn't healthy for the fight against JBJ. What a load of crap! All they talked about before the fight was Shogun finally being 100%. Either I missed something' date=' or the Shogun fanboys are back to making excuses. WTF[/quote']

 

To be fair, do you think a camp would ever say "Going into this fight, Shogun is clearly not physically ready, and he's nowhere near the shape he was when he fought Machida"? C'mon, every camp ALWAYS says their fighter is healthy. Hell, Ortiz even said before a fight that he was "finally 100%", then after he lost, the injury excuses poured out.

 

People like to say "Shogun was healthy, he just got rocked and never recovered". He looked sluggish from the start, and after he "got rocked" he still looked just as sluggish at the end of the fight as he did right after he got rocked. You don't go into the Octagon rocked, and you don't stay rocked for 3 rounds.

 

All I'm saying is that Shogun WAS NOT himself in that fight. Anyone who refuses to see that is just a blind JBJ fanboy who can't accept facts.

 

Now, before you all start attacking me, let me finish by saying that I thoroughly believe that even a 100% healthy, fit Shogun, like the one who fought Machida, still probably would NOT have beaten JBJ. Shogun's style is just absolutely worthless against a fighter like JBJ. A mid-range striker with very poor TDD against a long-range striker who utilizes his ridiculous reach and has tremendous wrestling, he just didn't have a chance.

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Yes' date=' we can sit here and knit pick every possible matchup. My point is that he had an easier track to the title. I still would have liked to see one more fight after his win over Chuck before the title fight

 

And ultimately, I think that is why there has been so much criticism of Shogun in the UFC. I think it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths to see him get that title shot. It can really damage a fighter's accomplishments/reputation once they suffer that inevitable loss.

 

HELLO JAKE SHIELDS. He needs to beat GSP or else his career will take a plunge and no one will care about his past accomplishments either.

 

It all comes down to the crappy matchmaking in the UFC. The powers that be prefer to "sell a fight" that put on the "right" fight, and it's so transparent that any real fan can see it.

 

That's it. I'm stepping off my soapbox. I'm starting to pontificate now.[/quote']

 

The reason Shogun got the title shot is because there were NO other contenders left. Forrest had just been brutalized by Silva. Thiago had already been KTFO'd by Machida. Rashad had just lost the title to Machida. Chuck had just been beaten. The only fighter left was Rampage, and he turned down the fight. So Shogun stepped up and took it. Simple as that.

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