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Legit thought out Pound for Pound Arguments


The_3rdBruce

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Welcome to my first post.

 

Too many threads about pound for pound don?t seem to take actual qualifications into consideration so I?m going to try setting the record straight with what I see.

People are blindly debating Anderson vs GSP based solely on finishes, control, and ?entertainment? value of their fights. P4P is supposed to be a valued judgment of overall skill-sets and assuming that size didn?t play an issue what overall skill set would be the absolute best to have. To judge that we need to look at all of the various skills of MMA and assess as objectively as we can who ranks highest.

 

Here are some of my takes, as unbiased as I can be.

 

STRIKING

Overall Rounded Stand Up - Anderson Silva, Fedor, Shogun, Aldo

Boxing & Strategic Striking - GSP, BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, Dominick Cruz

Power Striking - Hendo, Shogun, Wanderlei, Formerly Rampage when he decided to finish people...Dan Hardy, Melvin Guillard

Speed Striking - Vitor, Anderson, GSP, Swick (if he ever comes back healthy)

Counter Striking - Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn

Chin - Hendo, Fedor, Anderson, BJ Penn, (Brock in sarcastic land.)

Avoidance (not running, actual good movement) Anderson, Machida, BJ, Edgar,

 

CLINCH GAME

Muay Thai - Anderson, Shogun, Wanderlei

Wrestling/Fence Work - Couture, GSP, Fitch

 

TAKEDOWNS

Shots - GSP, Cain Velasquez, Fitch, Sonnen, Gray Maynard, Rashad (Brock would only make the list due to size but size is the one intangible you have to eliminate in P4P)

Slams - Matt Hughes, Kurt Pellegrino, Couture,Rampage (I'll count Bones judo as slams)

Takedown Defense - BJ, GSP,

 

GROUND CONTROL

GSP, Fitch, Shields, BJ, Maia

 

SUBMISSIONS

Maia, Shields, GSP, BJ, G-Sot, Mir, Struve (and all LWs because I don't think you can officially be a LW without winning by Rear Naked Choke at some point.)

 

G-N-P

Cain, Bones (A bit of size here. So much speed/torque on an 80+ wingspan means killer elbows, ask Vera about that.) Florian (for cuts), GSP (hasn't finished lately but does a lot of damage and ask Sera about those knees...) Marquardt, and again no Brock because of size

 

STRATEGY (Smart Planning, Neutralizing opponents)

GSP, Edgar, KenFlo, Martin Kampmann (a la Paulo Thiago and in a loss Diego)

 

INTANGIBLES

BJ's Flexibility

KenFlo, Diego, and Dan Hardy - Heart

BROCK - SIZE hah

Anderson Silva - Insanely good and completely frightening. I never want to meet such a soft spoken man that could kill me with hands, feet, shins, elbows, or knees.

 

Overall it's hard to gauge because people are still opinionated between Stand up and Ground game. But by my count BJ has great balance of both, GSP has ground and Anderson has unfathomable striking talents. Then for BJ work ethic and motivation become problems, his weaknesses take away from his strengths...he has also lost to GSP twice but I could argue some of that is size. If GSP was at 155 he wouldn't drain BJ on the cage for 4 rounds as easily...

 

I think between the GSP and Silva, GSP may have a more balanced skill set ( I don't like GSP but I respect him). If size played no part he would undoubtedly have the strategy and overall ability to outwork and outscore Silva for 5 rounds. That being said, I think Silva's size and speed will help him avoid takedowns and his striking will put him over the top (assuming they do fight. And I love watching Silva and I definitely respect him but GSP is a rounded Martial Artist, I'll give him that credit.)

 

I'm sure I left out categories and names on categories, let me know what you think. Address your agreements, disagreements, or my omissions. I don't know many fighters outside of UFC so fill them in too if you want. Thanks.

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I think when you talk about a man like Anderson Silva you have to try and quantify mind games. Anderson says his strongest weapon is his mind. Also you can see Anderson break fighters will and even make them throw out any reasonable game plans because Anderson creates the illusion they can strike with him.

 

Mind games > Strategy

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I agree in part with that. Anderson definitely does have an intimidation factor that I didn't put as an intangible. However, that intimidation has to be established in some fights. Maia and Forrest are solid examples of him dominating, showing his ability and then toying with wounded prey. Then again in a fight like Sonnen he never showed any sign of mind games because he had to survive and get out. In a match up against GSP I can't imagine him playing as many games as he did with Maia and even if he does it won't frustrate him as much as it does others. Strategy trumps intimidation and mind games when you are strong enough to ignore them. The ability to find a weakness and exploit it means a lot more if you can focus on your own fight and not the other guy. GSP deserves credit for always fighting his fight and not worrying about what anyone else would do. Sonnen focused on his fight and that was the most danger we've recently seen Silva in. I can't count his mind games in every single fight but it is a good noted intangible.

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Anderson's intimidation is alot different to Kos or BJ. It isn't just in the fight, it is outside of the fight. Sonnen is a strange breed, he somehow convinced himself he could just wrestle **** the best P4P fighter in the world.

 

But it could also be just the mystic of Silva. I firmly believe if GSP is showing fear of Silva now it is only going to get worse when the fight is scheduled.

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We did see the submission though' date=' so his wrestling lost out in the end. Your first four words are correct.[/quote']

 

His crappy sub defence lost out in the end. Was hardly a bad plan, considering he dominated Anderson like nobody else has for 99% of the fight.

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Sooooo, you're saying he lost? If you have the sub defense of a fish using wrestling and GnP; i.e. Sonnen going into the fight with the plan of "out wrestling" someone who is at least a little dangerous with submissions was, in fact, a bad idea as the finality proved. Hate Silva if you must, Sonnen had a bad game plan and it was exploited in the by Silva. Silva knew from passed fights that Sonnen would get over eager and was susceptible to submissions.

Let's be clear I like Sonnen, I do not think he means to make any fight personal. I think that he just wants to make sure a fight he is in is hyped up and does a great job. I am not going to hate on Silva though.

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