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Who is the LHW GOAT?


green17

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I don't see in any way how Tito could be ranked over Chuck.

 

At his peak he was more dominate, he's maintained relevance longer, even in his loses he's never been completely dismantled as Chuck has, he was more diverse in ability, and had Tito not sidetracked himself in 2002 he would have continued on the path that lead him to greatness. The problem is for the last 9 years Tito has been a fanboy of himself from his three year span of dominance. Chuck was prolific for a little longer but generally the same amount of time, but displayed far less range in his style, and then his trek downward was far more devastating than Tito's has been.

 

Basically, Tito, in my eyes, was better at his peak and didn't nose dive once he was pasted his prime.

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At his peak he was more dominate' date=' he's maintained relevance longer, even in his loses he's never been completely dismantled as Chuck has, he was more diverse in ability, and had Tito not sidetracked himself in 2002 he would have continued on the path that lead him to greatness. The problem is for the last 9 years Tito has been a fanboy of himself from his three year span of dominance. Chuck was prolific for a little longer but generally the same amount of time, but displayed far less range in his style, and then his trek downward was far more devastating than Tito's has been.

 

Basically, Tito, in my eyes, was better at his peak and didn't nose dive once he was pasted his prime.[/quote']

 

Tito has taken a nose dive, he hasn't won a fight in 15 years it seems, he just hasn't been getting KTFO'd like Chuck. it's not just that Chuck beat him twice but he fought and beat better opponents throughout their careers.

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Tito has taken a nose dive' date=' he hasn't won a fight in 15 years it seems, he just hasn't been getting KTFO'd like Chuck. it's not just that Chuck beat him twice but he fought and beat better opponents throughout their careers.[/quote']

 

I disagree that Chuck fought better opponents throughout his career. A lot of people don't know much about MMA from the late 90's to early 2000's. Most fans, and I'm not saying this degradingly, but most of the MMA fans became such when TUF became nationally known. And at that time, Chuck was champ, so when most fans were introduced to the sport it was during a time period when Chuck was on a tear. Tito was utter dominate against the best from his era.

 

Chuck did beat Tito twice, but Ortiz was already up his own ***. The biggest problem with Tito over the last decade is he believed his own hype. When he was out to prove something he was damn near unstoppable, then he got lazy, and now he's simply not physically able to match up to modern warriors. That said, who has dismantled him? Chuck has been exposed to the point that fans and critics alike called for him to never step foot in the cage again, Tito, nearly a decade after he passed his peak, is still bringing some of the most elite fighters in the premier division to decisions, and split ones at that...and let's not forget he won the fight with Rashad, it was only due to a point deduction (which frankly I've never seen someone get a point deducted without even a warning...). He fights once a year - which anyone who's competed can attest to the difficulties of ring rust - and still manages to hold his own.

 

If you gave me prime Tito (circa 2001) and prime Chuck (circa 2006) I'd take Tito every single time.

 

But I'll lay the cards on the table, I'm a Tito fanboy and I've always felt Chuck was the most over rated LHW of all time, so take that for what it's worth.

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I disagree that Chuck fought better opponents throughout his career. A lot of people don't know much about MMA from the late 90's to early 2000's. Most fans' date=' and I'm not saying this degradingly, but most of the MMA fans became such when TUF became nationally known. And at that time, Chuck was champ, so when most fans were introduced to the sport it was during a time period when Chuck was on a tear. Tito was utter dominate against the best from his era.

 

Chuck did beat Tito twice, but Ortiz was already up his own ***. The biggest problem with Tito over the last decade is he believed his own hype. When he was out to prove something he was damn near unstoppable, then he got lazy, and now he's simply not physically able to match up to modern warriors. That said, who has dismantled him? Chuck has been exposed to the point that fans and critics alike called for him to never step foot in the cage again, Tito, nearly a decade after he passed his peak, is still bringing some of the most elite fighters in the premier division to decisions, and split ones at that...and let's not forget he won the fight with Rashad, it was only due to a point deduction (which frankly I've never seen someone get a point deducted without even a warning...). He fights once a year - which anyone who's competed can attest to the difficulties of ring rust - and still manages to hold his own.

 

If you gave me prime Tito (circa 2001) and prime Chuck (circa 2006) I'd take Tito every single time.

 

But I'll lay the cards on the table, I'm a Tito fanboy and I've always felt Chuck was the most over rated LHW of all time, so take that for what it's worth.[/quote']

 

Great points but the fact that Ortiz went on a 6 fight winning streak that was haulted by Couture and then Liddell speaks volume on who's better in my opinion. Tito lost to Couture then Chuck and went on to have a 5 match winning streak that got haulted by Chuck Liddell in their second match.

 

After the second loss to Liddell he ended up fighting 4 more times which resulted in a 0-3-1 record. I just always placed Chuck over Tito specially after he beat him twice.

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I disagree that Chuck fought better opponents throughout his career. A lot of people don't know much about MMA from the late 90's to early 2000's. Most fans' date=' and I'm not saying this degradingly, but most of the MMA fans became such when TUF became nationally known. And at that time, Chuck was champ, so when most fans were introduced to the sport it was during a time period when Chuck was on a tear. Tito was utter dominate against the best from his era.

 

Chuck did beat Tito twice, but Ortiz was already up his own ***. The biggest problem with Tito over the last decade is he believed his own hype. When he was out to prove something he was damn near unstoppable, then he got lazy, and now he's simply not physically able to match up to modern warriors. That said, who has dismantled him? Chuck has been exposed to the point that fans and critics alike called for him to never step foot in the cage again, Tito, nearly a decade after he passed his peak, is still bringing some of the most elite fighters in the premier division to decisions, and split ones at that...and let's not forget he won the fight with Rashad, it was only due to a point deduction (which frankly I've never seen someone get a point deducted without even a warning...). He fights once a year - which anyone who's competed can attest to the difficulties of ring rust - and still manages to hold his own.

 

If you gave me prime Tito (circa 2001) and prime Chuck (circa 2006) I'd take Tito every single time.

 

But I'll lay the cards on the table, I'm a Tito fanboy and I've always felt Chuck was the most over rated LHW of all time, so take that for what it's worth.[/quote']

 

Tito had some good wins early in his career and some later but he didn't exactly fight the toughest schedule of opponents throughout his career. And IMO what mostly cost him was the fight against Couture, he got embarrassed and injured and wasn't the same since. But honestly even without the back and neck injuries I still think Tito vs. Chuck would have still been the same fights with the same results.

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Definetly Shogun due to titles in both orgs' date=' level of competition. Liddell, Hendo and Wandy can make a case[/quote']

 

I don't hate Chuck, but I don't think anyone can make a legit case as to why he's the best ever, he was never even the best at any time. He's just really popular.

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I think its really close between Ortiz, then Wanderlei, and Liddell.

 

but since both Liddell and Ortiz beat Wanderlei, he should be 3rd. And Liddell beat Ortiz twice. So thats the tie breaker. Regardless of how each have accomplished great things, when they squared up against each other, Liddell took the lead.

 

1)Liddell

2)Ortiz

3)Wanderlei

 

funny thing, all guys just hit rock bottom near the end.

 

1. Liddell - 1-5 in last 6 (last 2 wins in mma career are over wanderlei, and ortiz)

2. Ortiz - 0-4-1 in last 5

2. Wanderlei - 2-5 in last 7 ( 1-4 in last LHW fights )

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You got to go with stats or otherwise its just an opinion' date=' that said GOAT is tito[/quote']

 

i just think its hard to say that, when liddell beat up Ortiz...2nd time Ortiz was not the same, so i dont count that as much. But i think his accomplishments may be more, Ortiz that is.

 

Liddell on the other hand, had a nice streak going with as quality opponents as Ortiz, while Ortiz was holding the belt. Until the finally met, and Liddell KO'd him, and went on another streak, and Ortiz was never the same.

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Stats say Tito lost twice to Liddell. . .

 

Stats can always be manipulated to favor one's opinions.

 

Stats don't lie - Chuck lost to Franklin, Franklin lost to Forrest, Forrest is 1-1 against Tito, who lost to Frank Shamrock, Frank lost to Renzo Gracie, Gracie lost to BJ Penn, who got beat by Frankie Edgar, TWICE.

 

Clearly, stats show Frankie Edgar is the greatest 205er in history. :P :rolleyes: ;)

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