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What is your definition fo 'reasonable force'?

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/burglar-stabbed-death-during-break-090020251.html

 

I hate reading stories like this. Tragic enough a young man loses his life' date=' but even more tragic the lives of the victims are forverer blighted by the descisions forced on them by circumstance.

 

Personably I think stabbing is a bit harsh. I would have left it at a severe beating.[/quote']

 

i think they should get an award! some fecker broke into my house that would only end one way!

 

but to answer your question...if the person has no weapon you can use just enough force to subdue but no more!

 

my pal was a boxer and caught a burglar in his living room,he beat the guy almost to death then dragged him out the front door and dumped him in the street!

i asked him why didnt you call the police? he said because he would have been arrested and prosecuted and the burglar would have got off scott free!

 

sad but true!

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i think they should get an award! some fecker broke into my house that would only end one way!

 

but to answer your question...if the person has no weapon you can use just enough force to subdue but no more!

 

my pal was a boxer and caught a burglar in his living room' date='he beat the guy almost to death then dragged him out the front door and dumped him in the street!

i asked him why didnt you call the police? he said because he would have been arrested and prosecuted and the burglar would have got off scott free!

 

sad but true![/quote']

 

Not entirely true, it depends on how well you will be able to articulate why you did the things you did, as well as what the opposing person did. If the person is significantly bigger then you, you can actually be justified in using lethal force (does not neccisarily mean killing despite the name), even if the person is unarmed.

 

Edit: This is for Canada, I don't know the American laws on this type of thing

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Just read the article... The fact so much of the world has to live in fear to me is disgusting... If I call 911 it will take at a minumum of 30 minutes for police to arrive. How long would it take an armed person to enter my home and murder me if I was unarmed.... 5 minutes... maybe. Yeah, kiss my *** if you think the police are gonna show up and save the day 25 minutes too late... by that time my son and I are daed, my wife is raped and dead and the MOFO stole my TV and Xbox and gotten away...F-THAT.

 

The story says 4+ men wearing masks who are "gang members" were trying to break in... Well my 12ga drum holds 20 rounds so maybe you the banger should call for backup. hope you know how to handel a fatal funnel buddy.

 

Hope you all enjoy your lives of fear in the UK. Ima keep dry humpin my shotty in my sleep.

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/burglar-stabbed-death-during-break-090020251.html

 

I hate reading stories like this. Tragic enough a young man loses his life' date=' but even more tragic the lives of the victims are forverer blighted by the descisions forced on them by circumstance.

 

Personably I think stabbing is a bit harsh. I would have left it at a severe beating.[/quote']

 

Terrible troll is terrible. You can't tell me that you're actually defending a guy that got made into a pin cushion for breaking into someones house, are you?

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Just for clarification. In the US, if there are signs of forced entry. The resident is fully within their rights to defend their property. To include death of the assailant. Just make sure that their body falls inside your house.

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Just read the article... The fact so much of the world has to live in fear to me is disgusting... If I call 911 it will take at a minumum of 30 minutes for police to arrive. How long would it take an armed person to enter my home and murder me if I was unarmed.... 5 minutes... maybe. Yeah' date=' kiss my *** if you think the police are gonna show up and save the day 25 minutes too late... by that time my son and I are daed, my wife is raped and dead and the MOFO stole my TV and Xbox and gotten away...F-THAT.

 

The story says 4+ men wearing masks who are "gang members" were trying to break in... Well my 12ga drum holds 20 rounds so maybe you the banger should call for backup. hope you know how to handel a fatal funnel buddy.

 

Hope you all enjoy your lives of fear in the UK. Ima keep dry humpin my shotty in my sleep.[/quote']

 

It didn't say in the article that they were armed so i'm assuming that they wern't. If four unarmed men break into your house you would immediately shoot them dead? thats probably a bit over the top as they would most probably try to leave when they saw the gun. I'm all for reasonable force and think the homeowners in this case shouldn't be prosecuted but when someone breaks into your house there has to be a line when doing it because you can't just murder someone unarmed just for breaking in to a property.

 

In don't fear for my life at all living here because people can't just go and buy firearms at supermarkets when ever they feel like.

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Thank God I live in Australia where this crap doesn;t occur to often

 

Just killer spiders and snakes :D lol jk. Doesn't happen to often here but this must have got alot of attention because of the homeowners getting arrested for murder which is retarded.

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It didn't say in the article that they were armed so i'm assuming that they wern't. If four unarmed men break into your house you would immediately shoot them dead? thats probably a bit over the top as they would most probably try to leave when they saw the gun. I'm all for reasonable force and think the homeowners in this case shouldn't be prosecuted but when someone breaks into your house there has to be a line when doing it because you can't just murder someone unarmed just for breaking in to a property.

 

In don't fear for my life at all living here because people can't just go and buy firearms at supermarkets when ever they feel like.

 

Absolutely. How's the homeowner gonna know if they're armed/unarmed?? 4 guys break into your house they could very well be carrying a knife, gun, anything. If ya stand and think "hmm wonder if he's armed" you're good as dead.

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Not entirely true' date=' it depends on how well you will be able to articulate why you did the things you did, as well as what the opposing person did. If the person is significantly bigger then you, you can actually be justified in using lethal force (does not neccisarily mean killing despite the name), even if the person is unarmed.

 

Edit: This is for Canada, I don't know the American laws on this type of thing[/quote']

 

unfortunately totally true in the UK! i know americans and it seems canadians can just shoot people willy nilly but in the uk it is frowned upon!

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this story has been in the news in the UK this week and it sickens me!

 

4 masked men trying to break into a house,inside is two males and one female (one man his dad and his girlfriend).

 

the news has concentrated on the fact that the guy was stabbed and the police are trying to work out who stabbed him.

 

yeah thats the bit to focus on:rolleyes:

 

its at times like this and only at times like this when i wished i lived in the USA,i mean you guys might be gun happy nuttjobs but at least you can defend your homes without fear of prosecution!

still on the other hand no one ever randomly walks into a Mcdonalds here and unloads an uzi!

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So many people don't really know America very well

 

 

You can only kill an intruder if they are an eminent threat to your person (or the lives of your family)

Grabbing your television or your dvd player doesn't count. You can tackle them, and detain them, but try not to soccer kick their heads off. They will likely sue you for injuries and win.

Someone breaks into your house and grabs your TV...and you shoot them...you're likely going to prison. Unless you can plant the evidence that makes it look like they were there to kill you and rape your wife :rolleyes: So please, don't shoot house thieves in the back!

 

Someone on your property is stealing your car? You better let them drive away and report it. They are not threating YOU with harm, and if they are in the process of "fleeing" (in this case driving away with your car), chasing them and assaulting or killing them can land your butt in jail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense

 

Check your local state or county statutes. It would be a good idea if you knew whether you lived in a castle state or a flight state.

 

Castle State = A state that allows a foundational system for self-defense, A state that allows you to "Stand Your Ground". This is very important. In a castle state, even if someone is threating to beat you up out at a park, or a parking lot, or on the street, you have a right to Stand Your Ground. This means you don't have to run from a fight.

Not all states are Castle States, so do some homework.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/10/no-duty-to-retreat.html

 

 

Flight State (Duty to Retreat) = A state that requires you to make "every effort" to avoid confrontation, or flee from harm. In a flight state, if someone on the street threatens to beat you up, you must make every effort to get away, you are not allowed to stand your ground. You can go to jail just as fast as the thug who beat you up if you chose not to flee from the fight/harm.

In some flight states, you must even try to flee your own house in the case of an invader.

New York is one of the few "Duty to Retreat" States. So be careful how you apply your natural instincts to defend yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_retreat

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2005/04/duty_to_retreat.php

http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular/DutyToRetreat.html

 

 

I live in a Castle State...I am glad that I do

Hopefully the liberals here don't change that

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Wiltshire UK Police Don?t Show For 2 1/2 Hours, Then Arrest Man Defending His Home

 

July 9th, 2008

 

WILTSHIRE, UK - For more than two years, Sydney Davis?s house has been under siege from youths throwing stones.

 

After two hours of bombardment in the latest attack and no sign of the police, the 65-year-old retired builder decided enough was enough.

 

As a particularly large missile landed in his kitchen, he grabbed a plank of wood from the garden and ran towards the gang to scare them away.

 

The police arrived just in time - to arrest Mr Davis for possession of an offensive weapon.

 

He now faces up to six months in prison. Yesterday Mr Davis said he was bewildered by the decision to prosecute him.

 

He claims objects have been thrown at his house on 700 separate occasions.

 

His windows have been smashed five times in eight months.

 

?Something needs to be done to stop these kids. They are out there every night,? he said.

 

?One of my neighbours even had a seven-month-old in their kitchen when a brick came through the window.

 

?It showered glass across the baby?s face. When these kids see the police they are off through the alleyways. The police have got no chance of catching them.?

 

Mr Davis?s 42-year- old wife Pauline dialled 999 when their home came under attack yet again last week, but two and a half hours later officers had failed to arrive.

 

The couple?s two sons, five and seven, were cowering behind the sofa when their father ran at the gang.

 

He recalled: ?My wife called the police at 6 o?clock. But [the youths] just kept on throwing stones.

 

?I have two kids and if one of those stones hit them it could have caused some really nasty damage.

 

?I left the back door open to stop them smashing it.?

 

When officers arrived outside his home in Swindon, Wiltshire, Mr Davis was handcuffed and led away to the cells, where he was later charged.

 

The youths ran off. ?What in the world is this country coming to that the police arrest people like me for protecting their own property?? he said yesterday.

 

?The police say they want to reduce crime, yet they let evil little toe-rags like this off. Then they prosecute hard-working, upstanding residents like me.

 

The law is, quite simply, a colossal ***.?

 

Wiltshire police claim to have increased their patrols after two houses in the region were attacked by arsonists.

 

Officers? shift patterns were also changed so they would be in the neighbourhood after dark, while the local council is considering blocking-off some of the alleyways.

 

Yesterday a spokesman confirmed that no youths were arrested in relation to the incident.

 

Local councillor Justin Tomlinson said homeowners in the area were ?living in fear? of unruly youths.

 

?We have sympathy with frustrated local residents - the Government continues to ignore a broken society, and therefore it is little wonder that frustrations boil over.

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If someone breaks into my house, while my family sleeps, I will do whatever it takes including stabbing them. I despise this country where we can't defend our family in our own homes.

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This is why ima live in TX when im done working^^^^^^^ F- the UK.... F- Canadia.... call me what you want but if a mofo comes to this house he gonna get a bad case of lead poisening
LOL no one would be dumb enough to even think about robbing you.:P

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This is why ima live in TX when im done working^^^^^^^ F- the UK.... F- Canadia.... call me what you want but if a mofo comes to this house he gonna get a bad case of lead poisening

 

I agree with you, 100%. I live in Canada and I will risk going to jail anyways. If somebody breaks into my house, they deserve to die. I shouldn't be responsible for trying to discern whether they are trying to rape or kill me first. There is no reason to protect criminals.

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I agree with you' date=' 100%. I live in Canada and I will risk going to jail anyways. If somebody breaks into my house, they deserve to die. I shouldn't be responsible for trying to discern whether they are trying to rape or kill me first. There is no reason to protect criminals.[/quote']

 

put a disclaimer in your yard, that'll teach the Govt :D

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So many people don't really know America very well

 

 

You can only kill an intruder if they are an eminent threat to your person (or the lives of your family)

Grabbing your television or your dvd player doesn't count. You can tackle them' date=' and detain them, but try not to soccer kick their heads off. They will likely sue you for injuries and win.

Someone breaks into your house and grabs your TV...and you shoot them...you're likely going to prison. Unless you can plant the evidence that makes it look like they were there to kill you and rape your wife :rolleyes: So please, don't shoot house thieves in the back!

 

Someone on your property is stealing your car? You better let them drive away and report it. They are not threating YOU with harm, and if they are in the process of "fleeing" (in this case driving away with your car), chasing them and assaulting or killing them can land your butt in jail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense

 

Check your local state or county statutes. It would be a good idea if you knew whether you lived in a castle state or a flight state.

 

Castle State = A state that allows a foundational system for self-defense, A state that allows you to "Stand Your Ground". This is very important. In a castle state, even if someone is threating to beat you up out at a park, or a parking lot, or on the street, you have a right to Stand Your Ground. This means you don't have to run from a fight.

Not all states are Castle States, so do some homework.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/10/no-duty-to-retreat.html

 

 

Flight State (Duty to Retreat) = A state that requires you to make "every effort" to avoid confrontation, or flee from harm. In a flight state, if someone on the street threatens to beat you up, you must make every effort to get away, you are not allowed to stand your ground. You can go to jail just as fast as the thug who beat you up if you chose not to flee from the fight/harm.

In some flight states, you must even try to flee your own house in the case of an invader.

New York is one of the few "Duty to Retreat" States. So be careful how you apply your natural instincts to defend yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_retreat

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2005/04/duty_to_retreat.php

http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular/DutyToRetreat.html

 

 

I live in a Castle State...I am glad that I do

Hopefully the liberals here don't change that[/quote']

 

You need to look into Texas law before you throw your opinion around as fact. There is no ROE or escalation of force in the civilian world! If someone FORCES their way into my home I can naturally assume they have nothing but ill intentions and are armed. As normal people don't behave like this. If they turn around and run away? By all means, report them to the authorities and hope they get caught. But If an intruder BREAKS his way into MY HOME and even takes ONE SINGLE STEP in my direction, I take that as imminent danger with intent of bodily harm, and will put 3 in their chest and one in their face. I would bet a years salary that I wouldn't be convicted of murder in the state of Texas.

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Here in Ireland the law states that if someone breaks into your house, you cant do anything which has resulted in many farmers going to jail for blowing someone's brains out when they break in. If you think that is bad, a burglar in Ireland sued a women (successfully if i remember correctly) because he cut himself on the broken window when he tried to climb into her house.

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someone breaks into your house, a group of 4 guys, you have your family sleeping, you are defenseless unless you start shooting or stabbing.

 

Unless the guy was detained, and afterwords they just started stabbing him, which doesnt seem like the case, i have no problem with this.

 

what are you supposed to wait for them to attack you first and its too late?

 

wait for police to arrive in 15-20 minutes after they ran a train on your wife and daughter?

 

the first step of aggression was the breaking and entering, the 2nd is defense, and you should be allowed to do almost anything to defend your family, in your own house if you feel threatened.

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Yeah, this is the sort of response I would expect to fins on a forum. I bet in reality if 4 masked men broke into your house you would stand there and piss your pants.

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If you don't wanna get stabbed, don't break into someone's house. That's the risk those 4 men took. I have no problem with what they did.

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You need to look into Texas law before you throw your opinion around as fact. There is no ROE or escalation of force in the civilian world! If someone FORCES their way into my home I can naturally assume they have nothing but ill intentions and are armed. As normal people don't behave like this. If they turn around and run away? By all means' date=' report them to the authorities and hope they get caught. But If an intruder BREAKS his way into MY HOME and even takes ONE SINGLE STEP in my direction, I take that as imminent danger with intent of bodily harm, and will put 3 in their chest and one in their face. I would bet a years salary that I wouldn't be convicted of murder in the state of Texas.[/quote']

 

I'll trump your weak laws...

 

Here in the Sunshine State, we not only have the castle doctrine, if I see you even committing a felony, anywhere, thats right, Mr. Glock and I are gonna have a word with you- and it's gonna be a very one-sided conversation.

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Definition of reasonable force?

 

Is the subject black' date=' or white?[/quote']

 

Win!

 

My own opinion is that if you try to enter my property without my permission, especially with the intent of stealing/commiting a crime, I'm free to do whatever I want. If I wanna tackle you and hold you down, I can. If I wanna blow off your brains with any of the guns I keep in my house, I will. Or, my personal favorite, if I can chop a limb off with my samurai sword, then I pray you don't dare step foot in my house.

 

A man has a right, no matter where you live, to defend one's self and property. I'm not gonna let the "law" tell me what my "right" is.

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You need to look into Texas law before you throw your opinion around as fact. There is no ROE or escalation of force in the civilian world! If someone FORCES their way into my home I can naturally assume they have nothing but ill intentions and are armed. As normal people don't behave like this. If they turn around and run away? By all means' date=' report them to the authorities and hope they get caught. But If an intruder BREAKS his way into MY HOME and even takes ONE SINGLE STEP in my direction, I take that as imminent danger with intent of bodily harm, and will put 3 in their chest and one in their face. I would bet a years salary that I wouldn't be convicted of murder in the state of Texas.[/quote']

 

1) Its not my opinion, its based on state stautes.

2) Texas is awesome because they are a castle doctrine state with a wonderful track record of supporting self defense.

3) Did I pick on Texas in my post? I don't think so. I was born in Austin TX in 1980, and I am a gun owner.

4) Not all states would let you get away with what you describe, which was my point, that people check THEIR states statutes just to be sure they know their rights.

 

5)

file.php?2,file=34655,filename=woah-calm-down-you-are-full-on-mad-bro.jpg

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You should be able to kill someone without getting in any trouble if they break into your house.

 

/Thread

 

In my opinion every state should have castle laws, even the most liberal states. And really, what is it with some left-leaning people having sympathy and/or compassion for burglars and criminals? If a person breaks into your house that in itself is imminent danger as far as i'm concerned, hence blast away.

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If any human being has the disrespect to break into my house and steal my stuff,then they get treated with that same respect back,a baseball bat to the face.

 

Any force should be fair game in that situation

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States with a Stand-your-ground Law: No duty to retreat' date=' regardless of where attack takes place...

 

Louisiana

 

YUS![/quote']

 

x2. :D

 

If thier in the yard and i caught them i'd warn them at gun point to GTFO and don't ever let me catch them again. You break in the house i shoot first ask questions later.

 

If you've got the balls to break in i assume you have no regard for me or my families lives and im not having that.

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i have a friend who is a butcher' date=' so if an intruder breaks in to my house.... there will be no traces

 

 

 

 

jk :eek:[/quote']

 

Always be weary of a man who owns a pig farm. ;)

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I had a strange incident that occurred a few years ago when my little girl was put into a threatening position? I realized that if I perceive something/someone as a threat to my family I will aggressively do anything I can to eliminate the threat.

 

I pray that my house is never broken into while my children are home.

 

To the OP ? I feel no sympathy for the individual that lost their life in the incident ? my sympathy goes to the individual that was forced to defend his own home.

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